Am I wrong or right? Advice?

[fettbass]

So a medium sized venue booked us for a wednesday night show. Not a huge deal, a nice middle of the week thing. I noticed that they had booked 3 other bands, and that they were starting at 10 pm. Additionally, the promoter had booked us as "headliners" (closers) which would put us on at like, 1 am, on a wednesday night, which is terrible. I suggested to the promoter that we go on at 9 pm, before the other bands, as an opener instead, as nobody really wants to watch a band at 1 am on a wednesday. The promoter replied, saying that we would go on at 11 30 (still as a closer) , and if it would be ok for the other bands to use our amps, kit etc, as we were closing. We agree to this (foolishly). What actually happened was, we ended up going on at 12 45, all the other bands (who used our equipment), and their friends, left, and the people we'd managed to draw mainly had to go home, as it was too late, and we had promoted it as us on at 11 30. While people are leaving, i basically say into the mic "good night guys! thanks for sticking around", as the whole show is a disaster in my mind. We play a shortened set, minus about 5 songs, to make up for the band before, which launched into an impromptu 11 minute (i timed it) closing instrumental jam after a 40 minute set, after I had already explained how the show was running late and if the could cut a little from their set. After the show, I approach the promoter, asking what sort of payment we can get for this night, as well as my gripes with how the show was organized. He's mainly angry at me for "calling out to the people leaving, who are really good friends of mine" and that he "knows people, and word will get around about how you treat the audience". I don't feel it could really be considered an audience, as it was just friends of bands showing up to see their friends. I feel it was incredibly disrespectful for them to leave after enjoying playing rockstar on someone else's gear. I feel i'm in the right, as I got jerked around. Also it's not the type of show we normally play; we usually play parties and funk themed club nights, and not bars on wednesday nights where we're entirely responsible for the draw, so we're used to getting paid for our shows. I managed to squeeze like 40 dollars out of the guy, and got out of there like a shot. He is a smaller time promoter, so I'm not too worried, but I wanted to know what you guys think. Sorry for the rant.

[Munjibunga]

You were right this time, but you'll be wrong if you let him book another gig for you.

[fettbass]

I was also upset that as a promoter, he expected us to be entirely responsible for the draw. I don't know how he can call himself a promoter when he just books his friends to play in a dingy bar on a wednesday night, and expects us to magically bring legions of fans.

[~ignited~wings~]

I've almost had a similar situation occur, where we were set to preform at 11:30 and ended up going on at 1 on a thursday night at a small bar. However, pretty much everyone in the audience was there for us, and they stuck it out into the night.

Sorry to hear about your situation, but you weren't wrong by any means.

[fettbass]

Good to know I'm not crazy. I guess the moral of the story is you have to be a bit selective as to the kind of shows you're playing.

[T-Bird]

Hi.

Things like that happen more often than people like to admit.

"Renting" Your gear and playing for $40 (/each, I hope) is screwing you at best, a grave insult at worst.

Advice? If the rant/vent is long, use paragraphs .

Regards
Sam

[Phalex]

I too hate Wednesday night gigs. It is possible to get home at 3:00am and get to work by 8:00am, but it aint no fun at all.


You should leave a flaming bag of poo on the promoters door step.

[sevenyearsdown]

Late night gigs during the week are usually a bad idea in my neck of the woods. Anything past happy hour gets harder to draw, and if you are talking past midnight on a wednesday.....fail.

Providing a backline, playing till weeeee hours, and getting 40 bucks. This so called promoter sounds like a complete ass hat.

[dido__15]

I'm sorry you got messed about. But you said it sounded fishy before you took the gig. You definately should have agreed a price before-hand. Personally I never provide the backline, then if I'm gettin messed about I can just leave.

[NKBassman]

Man if I had a dollar for every time that's happened to us...
We quit playing mid-week shows a long time ago, unless it was with a huge local or touring band headlining that actually had enough draw to make it worth while. Unless the show has some epic bands playing, they're almost never worth it.

Also, it sounds like the band that played before you are a bunch of dicks... an 11 minute jam after a 40 minute set with another band still expecting to play? I'm sorry, but here in Winnipeg that just wouldn't fly. Opening bands gotta be respectful of the headlining act, and get the eff off the stage when their time is up. That's just the way it is. I hope you never have to play with them again.

[nitrofix]

Sounds like a guy who's playing a promoter not a real promoter that doesn't know what the hell he's doing, as far as the band that played before you, let them know when they have about 10 minutes left, if they go over their time cut the sound and throw them off stage, if they get pissed off so what they left when they were done anyway....

[JohnMCA72]

You should have gotten a lot more than $40 just for the rental of your gear! Separate the performance from the gear rental & treat each as its own transaction.

If it's anybody other than a well-known, good, trusted friend who wants to use any of my gear, they'll pay through the nose for the privilege. The point isn't the money; it's to discourage the whole idea. Also, consider a hefty cash deposit, enough to cover any damage that some idiot might do (as well as provide a little more leverage at the end of the night).

JM

[electracoyote]

I have been in similar situations many times. It's a simple matter of not being treated with respect and getting jerked around. But you still have an obilgation to a professional and polite decorum. Venting through the P.A. can have unforseen negative consequences.

Although I fully sympathize with your situation, and I definitely agree that you and your band got messed around, what people remember is your attitude. When you get on the mic and vent your frustration, you have to realize not everyone in the room understands why you're frustrated. It could be perceived that you're just a smartass. The people you addressed when you said "good night guys! thanks for sticking around," they couldn't possibly have understood the whole situation and your anger, and there's always a chance that someone out there has just enough influence that it could cost you an opportunity in the future. You never know who might be listening to you.

IMHO, you should save your frustration for the individual who actually caused it, and not the whole room in general. And even then you have to tread lightly.

I say this having had the experience of screwing myself out of future opportunites by venting a little too strongly.

[Phalex]

Electracoyote makes a very good point. You have to play for the three people that actually stuck around, not comment on the folks who were leaving. The people that stayed to see you are the people that should get 100% of your energy and attention, and in a positive manner too boot.

I've wrestled with this myself. In fact we had a band meeting a couple of years ago to address this very issue with a particular person.

[schnigges]

I'm sure this is NOT the right thing to do, but I'd have left at 12.20 or by the time I'd have finished had I started at 11.30.

Things like that piss me off

[fettbass]

Originally Posted by electracoyote

I have been in similar situations many times. It's a simple matter of not being treated with respect and getting jerked around. But you still have an obilgation to a professional and polite decorum. Venting through the P.A. can have unforseen negative consequences.

Although I fully sympathize with your situation, and I definitely agree that you and your band got messed around, what people remember is your attitude. When you get on the mic and vent your frustration, you have to realize not everyone in the room understands why you're frustrated. It could be perceived that you're just a smartass. The people you addressed when you said "good night guys! thanks for sticking around," they couldn't possibly have understood the whole situation and your anger, and there's always a chance that someone out there has just enough influence that it could cost you an opportunity in the future. You never know who might be listening to you.

IMHO, you should save your frustration for the individual who actually caused it, and not the whole room in general. And even then you have to tread lightly.

I say this having had the experience of screwing myself out of future opportunites by venting a little too strongly.

This is sage advice. I do have a bit of a temper, and the fact that I was upset at the promoter's lack of professionalism doesn't give me an excuse to be unprofessional myself. I'm glad that it happened at an empty bar on a wednesday night, and not somewhere where it could potentially do a lot more damage.

[The EH Man]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

You were right this time, but you'll be wrong if you let him book another gig for you.

+1. My guitarist used to book us middle of the week gigs like that, despite the fact that I had to get up early for work.

[jnuts1]

"the promoter's lack of professionalism doesn't give me an excuse to be unprofessional myself"

this made me think of a gig i had a few weeks ago where i started a jam that leads into Come Together a bit too fast & one of my drummers is giving us all the death stare. well after the tune was over he starts screaming about how unprofessional we were starting it too fast like that! talk about unprofessional!

[robgo]

Originally Posted by dido__15

You definately should have agreed a price before-hand.

That.

[wildhorse]

Nobody uses my gear. And yes I would have pulled the plug.