Am I wrong or right? Advice?

[MonkeyBass]

I did a gig here in Denver a few years back where a promoter/club owner named Jay Bianci (Yes, I'm naming names) booked us into one of his small clubs called Quixotes.

We knew we could fill the smaller venue no problem.

As the gig drew closer, I noticed that the local paper was advertising a completely different band for that night. So after repeated unanswered phone calls and emails, I finally got Jay to call me back, where he explained that another "national" band wanted Quixotes on the same night so "upgraded" us by booking us into his HUGE club called Cervantes. He said details would follow.

I said that would be fine so long as he knew we'd never fill that venue.

I never got the details of the show. He never picked up his phone.

A week before the show one paper said we were the headliner, one paper didn't show us at all, one paper had us as the opener. When my fans asked what time we went on, I had to say "I have no idea." So the answer was always, "well then, I'll catch the next one."

The day of the show arrived and we had 10 people in the door at a club that holds 400. After the gig I asked for the money from the bar tender because Jay (douche bag) Bianci never even showed up. The bar tender called Jay to ask how much we were to get and he told the bar tender that we didn't get anything because we only got 10 people in the door and it cost him $400 just to open the doors.

Well, the poor bar tender got an earful of what I thought about that. The next day I called Jay (left a message of course) telling him that there's a special place in hell for people like him.

I've never booked another show with him, I've never stepped foot inside his clubs again, and I've told all my friends and fans to do the same.

That felt good to rant! Thanks TB'ers!

[fettbass]

What i've learned from my relatively short (thus far) experiences with gigging is that there are two kinds of promoters. The ones that treat bands well, run shows well, and make sure the bands all get treated fairly and are able to perform and draw as well as they can, and those that just jerk bands around, make 70 bucks in beer money, and find new dime a dozen bands on myspace each week. What the second kind of promoters don't seem to understand, is that by helping us, by allowing us to play at the time we're supposed to, with the maximum amount of people, they're not only ensuring that the bands they put on grow, but that it also gives them more money. Too many promoters are satisfied with making quick bucks off of an endless list of bands.

[Sheldon681]

Sounds like this situation was caused by 2 things. An unscrupulous (or at a minimum, totally incompetent) promoter, coupled with a band that didn't do enough homework before the event. Considering the number of identical stories posted in this forum pretty much daily, I'm sure just about everyone that read the original post knew how the events were going to unfold before they finished reading the story.

Hopefully a few lessons have been learned: Always get agreements on important items like pay, start times, etc. in writing beforehand. Also, you know that the event is off the rails a minute after you're scheduled to go on. At 11:31 if the previous band is still going strong, that's the time to talk to the promoter, lay down the law, etc. You shouldn't need to ask the previous band to speed up, etc. That's the promoter's job.

It also wouldn't hurt to talk to your band members to pre-plan courses of action in case events like this happen again so you're not debating them at the venue. IE: If we're delayed by XX minutes, we pack up and walk. Or we write in a clause to the agreement to charge XX extra for a late start.

Anyway, that's my $.02.

[fettbass]

I actually wrote up a contract to give to club owners/promoters as a result of this debacle. Maybe you guys can critique it.

C O N T R A C T

ARTIST AND BILLING: THE BACKBONE BEAT
BOOKER’S NAME:
ph) fax) email)
VENUE: name
Address ph)
TECH CONTACT FOR VENUE:
ph) email)
CONTACT FOR ARTIST:
ph) email)
VENUE CAPACITY:
SHOWDATE:
BACKBONE BEAT SHOW TIME:
LENGTH OF SET:
LOAD-IN TIME:
DOORS:
TICKET PRICE: $
GUARANTEED FEE:
THE BACKBONE BEAT WILL SUPPLY THE FOLLOWING BACKLINE:



For THE BACKBONE BEAT:

__________________________ Victor Ess

For Venue: ____________________________
Booker’s name

[xgator4u]

Originally Posted by Sheldon681

Sounds like this situation was caused by 2 things. An unscrupulous (or at a minimum, totally incompetent) promoter, coupled with a band that didn't do enough homework before the event. Considering the number of identical stories posted in this forum pretty much daily, I'm sure just about everyone that read the original post knew how the events were going to unfold before they finished reading the story.

Hopefully a few lessons have been learned: Always get agreements on important items like pay, start times, etc. in writing beforehand. Also, you know that the event is off the rails a minute after you're scheduled to go on. At 11:31 if the previous band is still going strong, that's the time to talk to the promoter, lay down the law, etc. You shouldn't need to ask the previous band to speed up, etc. That's the promoter's job.

It also wouldn't hurt to talk to your band members to pre-plan courses of action in case events like this happen again so you're not debating them at the venue. IE: If we're delayed by XX minutes, we pack up and walk. Or we write in a clause to the agreement to charge XX extra for a late start.

Anyway, that's my $.02.

^ this. Also , this "gig" sounds a LOT like an infamous Pay to Play situation. Avoid these at ALL cost. In addition, I can assure you that if I, and a band were supposed to play @ 11:30 P.M., and given the fact that OUR gear was being utilized for the back line, at 11:30 P.M. we would have killed the power, and taken the stage. Sorry for the previous bands luck. Take it up with the so called promoter. What ? Don't like it? O.K. then we will just load out, and you are on your own. And I assume that a feeble threat like " you could be causing yourself not to get more gigs", is supposed to be intimidating,or motivating? More gigs like that I don't need. Thanks anyway. My 2 cents.

[BigOldHarry]

Been there, done that - YEARS ago. Live and learn. Lesson here is A) never let other folks use your gear and B) don't agree to be the closer on a wed night. Ick.

[MonkeyBass]

Originally Posted by Sheldon681

Sounds like this situation was caused by 2 things. An unscrupulous (or at a minimum, totally incompetent) promoter, coupled with a band that didn't do enough homework before the event. Considering the number of identical stories posted in this forum pretty much daily, I'm sure just about everyone that read the original post knew how the events were going to unfold before they finished reading the story.

Hopefully a few lessons have been learned: Always get agreements on important items like pay, start times, etc. in writing beforehand. Also, you know that the event is off the rails a minute after you're scheduled to go on. At 11:31 if the previous band is still going strong, that's the time to talk to the promoter, lay down the law, etc. You shouldn't need to ask the previous band to speed up, etc. That's the promoter's job.

It also wouldn't hurt to talk to your band members to pre-plan courses of action in case events like this happen again so you're not debating them at the venue. IE: If we're delayed by XX minutes, we pack up and walk. Or we write in a clause to the agreement to charge XX extra for a late start.

Anyway, that's my $.02.

Easier said than done. I've never met a promoter around here that will hire you if you throw a contract at them.

Not sure what to do about that.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by MonkeyBass

Easier said than done. I've never met a promoter around here that will hire you if you throw a contract at them.

Not sure what to do about that.

+1

Yes, the contract issue is one that is near and dear to my heart. I'm in the enviable position of having a contract for every performance, but I focus primarily on weddings and corporate events.

In the local club/bar circuit, the unfortunate reality is you have to work with owners and promoters like the one in OP's story. If they don't give a damn about your time and efforts, they don't give a damn about contracts either and will likely laugh out loud when you hand them one.

I did it for years without contract, and you basically take what you can get until you reach the point where you have the clout, the show, the guaranteed crowd 7 days a week. Until then, you are chopped liver.

Do it for the sheer joy of making music, and any reward beyond that is a bonus, icing on the cake.

[Sheldon681]

So if the promoters won't look at bands with contracts, I guess it all boils down to "Is that a risk you're willing to take?"

If so, that's cool, and hopefully everyone does as they're promised and things go off without a hitch. And if things do get messed up, well you knew that was a possibility and you chose (instead of losing the gig) to accept that risk. And that's fine too.