Annoying - just a little.

[Sneakypete]

Has anyone else noticed how many bass experts (guitar too) giving lessons on Youtube pluck the low E (or B) and say with great authority "This is your top string". NO IT IS NOT! Well, I suppose if you're stupid and measuring how far from the floor it is you could say that but surely the top string is the G and it plays the top notes and the bottom string is the E and plays the bottom notes. It's the frequency of the bloody thing that matters not its position relative to the carpet! What if you're hanging upside down from a trapeze (I do this all the time, of course) is the E still your top string?

[Step]

Originally Posted by Sneakypete

Has anyone else noticed how many bass experts (guitar too) giving lessons on Youtube pluck the low E (or B) and say with great authority "This is your top string". NO IT IS NOT! Well, I suppose if you're stupid and measuring how far from the floor it is you could say that but surely the top string is the G and it plays the top notes and the bottom string is the E and plays the bottom notes. It's the frequency of the bloody thing that matters not its position relative to the carpet! What if you're hanging upside down from a trapeze (I do this all the time, of course) is the E still your top string?

I'd say that when talking about frequency you would say highest or lowest, and when talking about elevation you would say top or bottom

and since the top string on a bass is the E string, I kinda see where they're coming from. Everyone uses different systems, this has led to some confusion in some of the jam sessions I've played (i.e: when saying top some guitarists would reach for high E, some for low E)

[nickfurst]

Originally Posted by Sneakypete

Has anyone else noticed how many bass experts (guitar too) giving lessons on Youtube pluck the low E (or B) and say with great authority "This is your top string". NO IT IS NOT! Well, I suppose if you're stupid and measuring how far from the floor it is you could say that but surely the top string is the G and it plays the top notes and the bottom string is the E and plays the bottom notes. It's the frequency of the bloody thing that matters not its position relative to the carpet! What if you're hanging upside down from a trapeze (I do this all the time, of course) is the E still your top string?

Honestly, I believe they say that so they don't confuse the newcomers to bass.
Sure, everyone here knows the difference, but newcomers just see the "big top string" and "small bottom string", you know?

[Staccato]

There are some traps to fall in, is it the highest 'sounding' string, or is it the highest (furthest) string from the floor?

If it is a beginner's video - explain everything without assumptions! We're trying to learn terms, and you're assuming we know something!

I do laugh when the largest (gauge) string is called the "first string"...

[Meddle]

I played the violin for years, so to me the top string is the one with the highest notes on it, on the violin it is E (IIRC lol). To me the top string on the bass is the G string, not the E, as I see naming a string due to its geographical location as a strange thing to do personally.

[BigOldHarry]

When I was teaching, I always struggled with this. Yes, the E string is on the "Top " of the instrument with respect to the player, but it is the "Bottom" string with respect to note.

I'd always endeavor to make this distinction clear to new students, and then use the term "Top string" to refer to the E string. It was just easier to keep straight. Actually, looking back, I think I mostly used the term "E string" - I was trying to get these kids to actually remember the names of their strings / notes -- and it wasn't as easy as it sounds!

[Spraeg]

Well, due to different tunings, etc... sometimes it's hard to refer to the strings by note name. When I learned to read Tablature, I learned to read it (what I consider to be) Upside-down- lowest pitch notes, first string on the bottom. But the majority of tabs that I see written out, and the majority of instructions refer to the low-E, lower pitch notes as the top string, simply because it's easier to relate to and easier to think about in a logical sense for most people. We are almost all taught to read at a very young age top to bottom left to right, so thats how most people think, and thats how most people orient themselves, top is up, bottom is down, one is up, 4 (or 5, or 6, etc...) is down. When you naturally number out a list, I'd bet good money you write "one" at the top, right? The High G being the "one" or top string might be correct according to music theory, because it follows the musical staff (lower pitch notes are lower on the staff), but the vast majority of people (and that includes musicians) naturally think differently.

[eSmith]

Well, since you brought up tabs, on a related note, I'd like to hang the lazy A$$ who invented tabs.

I'm trying to help a young newbie and just about pull my hair out when every time I mention a 3rd, 5th or 7th he goes looking for the 3rd, 5th and 7th fret..........

I guess in the tab world all basses only have 4 5th notes and they all reside between the 4th and 6th frets.

If I could only get through to him now how much extra effort he is going to have to put in to unlearn all the bad habits tab steer you into maybe he'd understand it makes more sense to do half the work once and just learn to read.

It reminds me of when I was a kid and took "Shortcuts" to school through every backyard along the way.... Never did get to class on time......

And now that you guys seem to be clear on "Top" and "Bottom" strings, Lets discuss the logistics of going "UP" and "Down" the fretboard..........




-eSmith.

[BritPicker]

I'd say top string is the highest pitch string.

Up the neck is, again, higher notes, so closer to the bridge.

Higher pitch, up (towards the 'top')

Lower pitch, down (towards the 'bottom')

It would be easier if the English language didn't use the same adjectives for locations and pitch.

Anyway, I think the least confusing thing in the long run is just to say FORGET about where the string physically is when talking about up/down/high/low/top/bottom.

Anything else is just a logical nightmare!

[HaVIC5]

Well, since you brought up tabs, on a related note, I'd like to hang the lazy A$$ who invented tabs.

They've been dead for 700 years already. :P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablature#Origin

[Molotov Pop]

Originally Posted by eSmith

...

And now that you guys seem to be clear on "Top" and "Bottom" strings, Lets discuss the logistics of going "UP" and "Down" the fretboard..........

-eSmith.

^^^ that's it right there. Musically you move 'UP' & 'DOWN' a scale by physically moving up and down a fretboard, increasing and decreasing the perceived pitch. so regardless of what stringed instrument is played 'up' & 'down' is relative to the note, not the individual spatial coordinates of a string.

[caeman]

Tablature was the FIRST music notation. It is those clef notation thingies that came along later.

[Jason P Bass]

If anybody ever started talking to me about the "top" string - whether that referred to the E string or G string - that would be the end of the conversation right there.

Unless that person is honestly trying to learn something, in which case I would do my best to explain that people who refer to a "top" string make themselves look foolish in the presence of musicians.

If you can read tab, it would take you less than 2 weeks to learn how to read notes on a staff. When you have that skill, it is far easier than reading tab.

Of course, you need to know the names of the notes on the fretboard. If you don't know them, and have an excuse for that, then you're not really trying to learn the instrument. Learning the notes would take less than 2 weeks.

So, basically, in 4 weeks time, you could launch yourself into the elite 5% or 10% of bass players who know the names of the notes and can read bass lines off a staff. You'd jump right to the head of the line for many paid gigs, and you'd have the skills to read & write music, take notes, and communicate intelligently with educated & professional musicians.

BUT - there will be at least a dozen posts below this one explaining how you don't need to learn the names of the notes, you don't need to learn to read music, or dozens of excuses for (what seems to me like) sheer laziness.

So I'm just a crazy old guy swinging bottles and yelling "You dang kids, get off my lawn!"

[Burlington]

Originally Posted by eSmith

Well, since you brought up tabs, on a related note, I'd like to hang the lazy A$$ who invented tabs.

I'm trying to help a young newbie and just about pull my hair out when every time I mention a 3rd, 5th or 7th he goes looking for the 3rd, 5th and 7th fret..........

I guess in the tab world all basses only have 4 5th notes and they all reside between the 4th and 6th frets.

If I could only get through to him now how much extra effort he is going to have to put in to unlearn all the bad habits tab steer you into maybe he'd understand it makes more sense to do half the work once and just learn to read.

It reminds me of when I was a kid and took "Shortcuts" to school through every backyard along the way.... Never did get to class on time......

And now that you guys seem to be clear on "Top" and "Bottom" strings, Lets discuss the logistics of going "UP" and "Down" the fretboard..........




-eSmith.

[Beginner Bass]

Originally Posted by eSmith

Well, since you brought up tabs, on a related note, I'd like to hang the lazy A$$ who invented tabs.

I'm trying to help a young newbie and just about pull my hair out when every time I mention a 3rd, 5th or 7th he goes looking for the 3rd, 5th and 7th fret..........

I guess in the tab world all basses only have 4 5th notes and they all reside between the 4th and 6th frets.

If I could only get through to him now how much extra effort he is going to have to put in to unlearn all the bad habits tab steer you into maybe he'd understand it makes more sense to do half the work once and just learn to read.

It reminds me of when I was a kid and took "Shortcuts" to school through every backyard along the way.... Never did get to class on time......

And now that you guys seem to be clear on "Top" and "Bottom" strings, Lets discuss the logistics of going "UP" and "Down" the fretboard..........




-eSmith.

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

They've been dead for 700 years already. :P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablature#Origin

Crap, you beat me to it!

[rosanne]

Originally Posted by BritPicker

I'd say top string is the highest pitch string.

Up the neck is, again, higher notes, so closer to the bridge.

Higher pitch, up (towards the 'top')

Lower pitch, down (towards the 'bottom')

+1

[eSmith]

Tablature was the FIRST music notation. It is those clef notation thingies that came along later.
__________________
Chad Wilson

This is true, and the first writing by humans was done on cave walls. So, when was the last time someone handed you a chart written on a cave wall?

From some of the frowns and responses you would think I've upset the Tab Gods. Do people really think they are an equal substitute for properly written music?

This sums it up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Cd7Bsp3dDo

-eSmith.

[Schlyder]

And that's why they invented the automobile, after the horse drawn cart.
Progress in getting from A to B faster. More information can be gained in a shorter amount of time using notation, rather than tablature.