bass players selling out

[TolerancEJ]

Originally Posted by Clef_de_fa

To me they are way more talented. They have mastered vibrato, they are able to sing what is on the sheet of paper and they have more dynamic than what we hear now.

Now their is never a vibrato, no lyricism and have a very limited range of singing.

Bingo!

[zfunkman]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

I'm a bass player, and bass solos bore me. And, honestly, I don't think anyone is "forced" to sell out. Throw a few million at me and I'll back Justin Beiber all day long.......

Long Bass solos bore me. . . even from the likes of Jeff Berlin or Stanley Clarke. However, a short sweet bass solo is well appreciated. Beiber's bass player probably gets union scale; as most pro session/touring bass players would take this gig. What types of music is any musician willing to do to make money? If you're not a famous song writer and you want to be a pro musician the more you're willing to do the more work you will have . . . and yes, mainstream music is mostly lame so if you want to work you very well may need to play lame music. However, these gigs are not easy to get.

[inthevelvet]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

I'm a bass player, and bass solos bore me. And, honestly, I don't think anyone is "forced" to sell out. Throw a few million at me and I'll back Justin Beiber all day long.......

I'd do it for a few hundred K per year and smile about it.

[Musiclogic]

Talent is relative in the music business. It always has been. Just like with basses and bass accessories, if something is hyped enough, it will start selling, if it has something that people want to hear, it can sell millions.

Here's the string that so may purists and "Artists" NEVER Get..... Bieber looks good and appeals to kids first. He writes songs that you would expect from a teenager, Basic, simple, and about kids life today, thus he is relavent and makes millions. He doesn't need to be a classically trained player or vocalist.

Most Classically trained voices and musicians rarely can write a "Hook" because they are so absorbed in their musicality that they have no idea what sounds good to the basic listener.

Why did Rap take off??? Because it is the root of simplicity....sample someone elses hit, put a hard dance beat over the top, and talk in basic pentameter, voila, A music style that feeds the stupid and sells a ton....because it takes no muscal talent, and the non musical masses can relate, they can dream to be a rapper/ hip hop star because all they need is basic computer skill.

There are 10 million guys out there that can slap like Stanley, Victor, and Larry Graham rolled into one, but they CAN'T write a song that people want to hear, much less buy. If you can't appeal to the masses and make them want to buy the music, you can be the god of your instrument, and you will still starve, or wax poetic about all the gigs you are playing........to 12 people at the local coffee joint or jazz club. Sucks to be a music snob. Write a hit.....Stevie Wonder is a musical genius, but he writes HITS to make money.

[two fingers]

Originally Posted by lfmn16

I never said you shouldn't. I just said that I was an equal member of the band, not a sideman. Besides, 'playing for the music' doesn't mean anything. Everyone plays what they think is best for the song. Wanking is when someone plays more notes than you think they should; it's all subjective.

You may be an "equal member" of the band when it comes to making decisions on what color Tshirt you will put out next, and what your cover art will look like on your next CD. But musically, you are in a support role. Sorry. It just is. Musically, the lead singer and any "lead" instruments "outrank" everybody else in the battle for frequency, volume, and melody.

If you were to stand in FRONT of or right beside the singer and lead guitarist plikity plaking away jumping around blocking the audience from interacting with them during the entire song, overshadowing what they are doing visually, and equally as "forward" in the FOH mix, your band would get nowhere fast. If this weren't true, you would be correct. But it is true, so you are not. You can't have it both ways.

Name me one band where the bass player (from a NON MUSICIAN'S standpoint) is an "equal member" of the band if he is not also the lead singer. Name one band that had/has a bass player (who ONLY plays bass) who is just as familiar to the fans as the lead singer/lead guitarist is. Everybody knows who Steven Tyler is and most know who Joe Perry is. How many know who Tom Hamilton is? You MUST look at it from a NON musician's standpoint because we don't buy enough of each other's albums to count for anything. What non musicians think is more important than what we think as far as "success or failure" of a band.

My two pennies. OK I get long winded. Maybe my four pennies.

[Nomadskills]

I don't see how this video relates to selling out. I think the bass vs. guitar thing threw me. Bass vs. bass seems more relatable to selling out. It could be over my head though.

[pklima]

You know, if guitarists ever invent a time machine that lets them go back to the days when there were guitar solos in popular songs, I hope they're nice enough to let opera singers use it too, to go back to a time before Wagner ruined everything.

Seriously, though, I'm all for classical training and having skills, but against using skills when they're not needed or wanted. You're not gonna "improve" 2013's popular music by making it sound more like 1876's unpopular music.

[Vince Klortho]

Originally Posted by two fingers

Name me one band where the bass player (from a NON MUSICIAN'S standpoint) is an "equal member" of the band if he is not also the lead singer. Name one band that had/has a bass player (who ONLY plays bass) who is just as familiar to the fans as the lead singer/lead guitarist is.

Duran Duran. John Taylor was and is quite famous. He was on the cover of lots of magazines, put out solo albums, did some acting, etc...

Sex Pistols. Sid Vicious was rather famous in his day.

Obviously, these guys are the exception to the "rule."

[KwinS]

Originally Posted by two fingers

You may be an "equal member" of the band when it comes to making decisions on what color Tshirt you will put out next, and what your cover art will look like on your next CD. But musically, you are in a support role. Sorry. It just is. Musically, the lead singer and any "lead" instruments "outrank" everybody else in the battle for frequency, volume, and melody.

If you were to stand in FRONT of or right beside the singer and lead guitarist plikity plaking away jumping around blocking the audience from interacting with them during the entire song, overshadowing what they are doing visually, and equally as "forward" in the FOH mix, your band would get nowhere fast. If this weren't true, you would be correct. But it is true, so you are not. You can't have it both ways.

Name me one band where the bass player (from a NON MUSICIAN'S standpoint) is an "equal member" of the band if he is not also the lead singer. Name one band that had/has a bass player (who ONLY plays bass) who is just as familiar to the fans as the lead singer/lead guitarist is. Everybody knows who Steven Tyler is and most know who Joe Perry is. How many know who Tom Hamilton is? You MUST look at it from a NON musician's standpoint because we don't buy enough of each other's albums to count for anything. What non musicians think is more important than what we think as far as "success or failure" of a band.

My two pennies. OK I get long winded. Maybe my four pennies.

Steve Harris with Iron Maiden.

[lfmn16]

Originally Posted by bass12

I'm not the one placing limititations on anything - the role I'm talking about is simply what most bandleaders and producers want. It doesn't mean you can't stretch or be heard - it depends on the music and the context. And I'd never suggest that a bass player isn't an "equal member of a band".

Maybe you forgot what you wrote -" Bass players are, 99% of the time, sidemen. That's what playing bass is about - helping to provide the foundation for a song."

It's hard to reconcile the quote I answered and what you are saying now.

[lfmn16]

Originally Posted by two fingers

You may be an "equal member" of the band when it comes to making decisions on what color Tshirt you will put out next, and what your cover art will look like on your next CD. But musically, you are in a support role. Sorry. It just is. Musically, the lead singer and any "lead" instruments "outrank" everybody else in the battle for frequency, volume, and melody.

You seem to know an awful lot for someone who doesn't know me and has never heard my band.

Maybe your band only lets you pick the t-shirt colors but some of us are actually capable of making an equal contribution. And equal member has nothing to do with how much attention you get on stage.

[VanillaThundah]

Originally Posted by Vince Klortho

Duran Duran. John Taylor was and is quite famous. He was on the cover of lots of magazines, put out solo albums, did some acting, etc...

Sex Pistols. Sid Vicious was rather famous in his day.

Obviously, these guys are the exception to the "rule."

Originally Posted by KwinS

Steve Harris with Iron Maiden.

What about Flea and Gene Simmons? I know Gene sang on occasion, but both of these guys are well known by non-musicians...sometimes more than the other members.

[VanillaThundah]

I think a lot of it has to do with the stage presence of the bassist and how involved he is in the music. Having gear that sounds good helps too, makes a solo or driving line much more interesting when they come up. I tend to shy away from solos and just do textural intros and such, sets the mood for the song and doesn't come off as arrogant or selfish as a solo does.

[Big Brother]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

I'm a bass player, and bass solos bore me. And, honestly, I don't think anyone is "forced" to sell out. Throw a few million at me and I'll back Justin Beiber all day long.......

I'd do it for a few hundred. Actually I'd pay to do it, I would have 19 year old girlfriends for years.

I just don't understand the whole concept of 'selling out.' To me it sounds like a term meaning 'an entertainer that I am professionally jealous of.' Or worse, narcissism when used as a guide for musical choices.

Nobody is too good to play a song. That seems silly to me.

[bass12]

Originally Posted by lfmn16

Maybe you forgot what you wrote -" Bass players are, 99% of the time, sidemen. That's what playing bass is about - helping to provide the foundation for a song."

It's hard to reconcile the quote I answered and what you are saying now.

If you're a professional musician then you are, most likely, a sideman on most gigs (perhaps I should have specified the "professional" part in my earlier post). And on most gigs what I stated above IS what bass playing is about. Now, you're free to find a band that wants you to play lead guitar parts on your bass all day long (they do exist) but this thread was about "selling out", which implies money. Good luck making any of that with the position you're taking.

[JakeF]

Originally Posted by Musiclogic

Why did Rap take off??? Because it is the root of simplicity....sample someone elses hit, put a hard dance beat over the top, and talk in basic pentameter, voila, A music style that feeds the stupid and sells a ton....because it takes no muscal talent, and the non musical masses can relate, they can dream to be a rapper/ hip hop star because all they need is basic computer skill.

"Feeds the stupid"?

What is with so many musician's feeling the need to insult the general public because they don't listen with the same ears we do? One of the great joys of becoming a musician is listening, learning and finding new stuff. If we end up so far away from the non-musician listener that we can't understand what in music makes them happy, than the music is coming from our own selfish-insecurities. If we truly understand what they enjoy then we wouldn't be mad about them not listening to X artist instead of obscure musician's musician.

[hernameisrio]

I just got done practicing for 5 hours because I want to actually make money at this thing. And in 20 minutes I have to go to bed so I can wake up and go to my Day Job™ so I can make money to be able to afford gear, rehearsal time, and the astronomical costs of living in NYC so that I can continue to stay here and bust my @$$ to be, yes, a hired gun.

If selling out means being able to afford the gear I want and being able to show up at rehearsal, chip in on drinks afterwards, and keep my head on straight enough to play for hours because I don't have to worry about money anymore....??

Then yeah. I don't ever want to buy in.

If selling out means eventually getting paid to do what I love, which is playing bass....?

What's wrong with that? What am I supposed to want?

I'm sorry, I guess I don't understand the question or maybe my work ethic is just different.

[two fingers]

Originally Posted by KwinS

Steve Harris with Iron Maiden.

Negative. I dare you to find me any non-musician who could tell you the name of the Iron Maiden bassist.

[two fingers]

Originally Posted by VanillaThundah

What about Flea and Gene Simmons? I know Gene sang on occasion, but both of these guys are well known by non-musicians...sometimes more than the other members.

Gene Simmons not only sang, but spit blood and had a foot-long tongue.

Flea actually crossed my mind when typing my post. But, again, I would argue there are plenty of non-musicians who would recognize him, but wouldn't be able to tell you he is the bass player.

[two fingers]

Originally Posted by lfmn16

You seem to know an awful lot for someone who doesn't know me and has never heard my band.

Maybe your band only lets you pick the t-shirt colors but some of us are actually capable of making an equal contribution. And equal member has nothing to do with how much attention you get on stage.

My apologies. Your earlier remarks seemed to bemoan the fact that bass is considered a "supporting role" musically. And that's where I thought your "equal member" comment sprang from. I'm sure you are amazing, as is your band.