"chops" and "growl"

[COOL AND DEADLY]

I hear these two cliches thrown around VERY liberally to the point I don't think there is one definition for either word. Chops is described by Chuck Rainey as endurance (musically), but many seem to use the word to describe basslines, timing or licks. Like "Learn funky chops here." How can endurance be funky? And as for growl, it would seem to mean a reverberating sustain to me, but I hear people saying Jaco has a growl and then I hear people say FamilyMan has a growl. If "growl" has anything to do with tone these two opposite tones can't both be "growling" can they?
So what are your definitions of "chops" and "growl?" It seems to me they mean whatever each individual believes or wants them to mean. In other words they have lost any distinct definition making them useless as words.

[kesslari]

If I give my dog some chops (pork variety) and some bonehead tries to take them away, you'll hear some growl...

[Jazlikethat]

I've always seen chops as endurance in a instrument. Usually referring to more fatiguing varieties like trumpet or DB. But lately it's sort of transcended into skill at an instrument. It can even but used to imply skill at non musical activities, as long as it is used by a musician.

Damn, Michelangelo had mad painting chops

[corradoc]

Originally Posted by COOL AND DEADLY

I hear these two cliches thrown around VERY liberally to the point I don't think there is one definition for either word. Chops is described by Chuck Rainey as endurance (musically), but many seem to use the word to describe basslines, timing or licks. Like "Learn funky chops here." How can endurance be funky? And as for growl, it would seem to mean a reverberating sustain to me, but I hear people saying Jaco has a growl and then I hear people say FamilyMan has a growl. If "growl" has anything to do with tone these two opposite tones can't both be "growling" can they?
So what are your definitions of "chops" and "growl?" It seems to me they mean whatever each individual believes or wants them to mean. In other words they have lost any distinct definition making them useless as words.

Yeah, I think to an extent its all subjective. But I take growl to mean "nasty tone" and that can be many things (just like all dogs can growl, but most sound different) but in my mind, I have some particular sense of it. Chops, in my mind, is one's ability to "hang" with other musicians (in a live setting)....so I spose that would mean not only endurance, but to some extent technique as well.....

[Shroom]

I always took "chops" to mean skills, more or less, and "growl" to me is sort of like a noticeable, relatively higher frequency beat (if your know your sounds physics), or actually similar to a growling or almost purring sound. If you've ever heard P-Nut in 311, that's who's tone I think of when I hear the word "growl" around here.

[T-MOST]

I think "chops" could be endurance (on a given musical instrument or voice) with an "implied" secondary meaning of skill or talent. Endurance by itself doesn't mean anything if you don't have skill or talent right?

[M@ddest_H@tter!]

To me chops are good fundamentals and great technique, as well as endurance. "Growl" in my opinion is what Tim Commerford's (Rage Against the Machine) bass sounded like.

[J-B'ass]

I always thought of chops as meaning the flashy fills and solos, and just generally technically impressive musical passages, I never thought of it as endurance
Growl for me just means literal growl, any middy, grunty sound, or just dissonance. On a bass, even a perfect fifth growls nicely

[Basshole]

Chops = Skills
Growl = A gutteral, burbling sound - good example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5y6BbOjYqg
(Warwick Dolphin Pro 5 fretless)

[Swofford]

Originally Posted by Basshole

Chops = Skills
Growl = A gutteral, burbling sound - good example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5y6BbOjYqg
(Warwick Dolphin Pro 5 fretless)

Great vid man! Perfect example. That did send me on a Fishbone vid surfing extravaganza that kept me distracted for 40 mins though....lol.

[theshadow2001]

Chops are the players ability to play the instrument very well, to a high skill level

Growl to me is the inference of a low mid type distortion, even though there is no distortion. Sort of the illusion of it.

[Bruce Lindfield]

"Jazz Bass growl" was known about and was around before the internet - I heard it mentioned in the 1970s - and it was a clearly-defined sound!

Post internet though - it seems to be used indscriminately to describe anything that young people think is "cool" ..

Originally it was used to describe a sound that could only be obtained on a Fender Jazz bass or the copies that spawned - although I have heard it from Tobias and some Yamaha TRBs.

[sixtwofour]

Originally Posted by Basshole

Chops = Skills
Growl = A gutteral, burbling sound - good example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5y6BbOjYqg
(Warwick Dolphin Pro 5 fretless)

Exactly.

And oh man have I been a fan of that tune for a long time. I was recording an independent CD about 12 years ago, and we were going through this tune we wrote, and the engineer goes 'this reminds me of 'Sunless Saturday' by Fishbone'. We'd never heard it, so he threw it in the CD player. I was blown away. I wished we sounded something like that. Where's the acoustic intro though?

That bass tone is the epitome of growl.

As a side note, I wish Fishbone did less ska-ish stuff and more heavy stuff like Sunless Saturday.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Nope - that's not growl to me! Just distortion...?
I knew what it was in the 70s and it's not going to change!

[wallstreet]

i always considered chops to be your aresenal of tricks. which could be considered endurance, or techniques.

as for growl. i consider it close to the sound of an acoustic piano ie, clean metallic tone, not too much high or low end. geddy or chris squire could be good examples of growl.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EIpaj3ah-c

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by wallstreet

as for growl. i consider growl on bass to be as close to the sound of an acoustic piano.. ie, clean metallic tone, not too much high or low end... i guess geddy or chris squire could be good examples of growl.

Nope - again that has been a clearly-defined sound since the 70s and it was always known as 'Clank' or the famous Rickenbacker 'Clank'...

Growl was associated with Jazz basses and is a sound you can't really get on a Rick!


Do a Google search on "rickenbacker clank" and you will get loads of hits!

[wallstreet]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

Nope - again that has been a clearly-defined sound since the 70s and it was always known as 'Clank' or the famous Rickenbacker 'Clank'...

Growl was associated with Jazz basses and is a sound you can't really get on a Rick!


Do a Google search on "rickenbacker clank" and you will get loads of hits!

if you don't consider chris squire's tone growlish, then i guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Do the search - "Clank" as applied to Chris Squire's tone has been around since the early 1970s!!

[wallstreet]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

Do the search - "Clank" as applied to Chris Squire's tone has been around since the early 1970s!!

well if i want to call it growl, clank, or vag lubing its my perogative nothing to get excited about. its not like the term is in the dictionary.

[Auriaprottu]

Chops- your ability to play the instrument
Growl- the sound you can hear when you solo the bridge pup of a Jazz bass and pluck over it