"chops" and "growl"

[BillMason]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

Well that's not what I said.

My point is that if somebody asks the question "what is growl" - in relation to bass guitar - then the answer is pretty clear ! And it has been for over 30 years.

If you want to say that everything is subjective - then go along to the amps and other forums and tell them that they are all wasting their time when they talk about tone as it is entirely subjective !!

In fact you might as well say that the whole forum is redundant as anybody could mean anything, by any term/phrase they use !! So why bother talking about any of it - just replace the whole forum with a sign that says:


"It's all subjective and your own opinion is worth as much as anybody else's - so don't bother asking for advice!"

Well, it is pretty close to what you said - Warwicks do not growl is what you said. Obviously it's not clear, as your comments only refer to Jazz bass guitars, not all bass guitars!! I'll accept that it is clear with respect to Jazz basses, and never contended that point in the first place.

I don't believe that talking about tone is a waste of time, as I said it helps me and others inform our opinions of how to define these terms. Please do read the amp forum yourself, as well as the pickups and basses forums and you will see people arguing constantly about terms like this - as well as "vintage" or "modern" and several others! You will also hear many people talking about their basses having growl, or a certain preamp giving them growl, and quite often they are not using Jazz basses, so they are clearly not talking about the "trademark Jazz growl," but about something else, and they are welcome to use the term all they want in my opinion.

You also might as well say that this whole site is redundant, because it was all figured out 30 years ago!

[BillMason]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

So the person who wanted to accuse me of living in a backwater - "Communist Russia" huh..? - actually knows very little about other countries....

I must admit I know very little about Halifax Nova Scotia and it's not a place I would associate with music in the same way I would London, Liverpool, Manchester etc. - but I have heard its major industry is "Gas extraction"...?

Kind of appropriate....

The communist Russia comment was in reference to your comment that no one else is entitled to their opinion. I actually know quite a bit about other countries, maybe a little more than you do if you are not familiar with Halifax or Nova Scotia - sure we don't have the Who, the Stones, Cream, the Beatles, Black Sabbath or the Smiths. But if you were genuinely interested in asking with an open mind, I would tell you a little that you might find surprising. Since I know you are incapable of doing so, and seem bent on resorting to monkeyish poop-slinging tactics when you get frustrated by your inability to make a solid point, I won't! Not that I see any relevance between where *you* live and your grand understanding of music - you don't win points just because of an accident of birth. Congratulations on your ability to use Google and this new-fangled internetty whatchamacallit thingy.

Have a nice day Bruce.

[Bruce Lindfield]

I don't know - some people just can't take a joke !!

So now - accusing somebody of being closed-minded, of living in Communist Russia etc etc is not considered poop-slinging...

Methinks that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!!

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by BillMason

...if an 11 year old kid calls it growl, fine, to him it's growl.

Believe what you want, it's subjective after all!

...because in the world I live in the objective fact is that describing tone is subjective.

Originally Posted by BillMason

I don't believe that talking about tone is a waste of time, as I said it helps me and others inform our opinions of how to define these terms.

So you go ahead and waste your time discussing entirely subjective things with 11-year-olds!

I've made my point it's backed up by as many sources as anybody could want - you carry on living in your entirely subjective world and I'll stay in mine where I know what people are talking about when they say things like "growl"!

[BillMason]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

I don't know - some people just can't take a joke !!

So now - accusing somebody of being closed-minded, of living in Communist Russia etc etc is not considered poop-slinging...

Methinks that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!!

No, it's not - it's accusing you of having a close minded attitude about other people's right to an opinion! You *did* say that others do not have a right to an opinion that differed from yours, as yours was not opinion but fact that has been established for 30 years.

I can take a joke! Let me know when you tell one, ok?

[BillMason]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

So you go ahead and waste your time discussing entirely subjective things with 11-year-olds!

I've made my point it's backed up by as many sources as anybody could want - you carry on living in your entirely subjective world and I'll stay in mine where I know what people are talking about when they say things like "growl"!

Well, in the thread you referenced:
How can I get "growl" out of my Jazz Bass?

There seems to be quite a bit of disagreement on what growl is! You stamping your feet and getting livid in the face does not change the fact that "growl" is not a commonly agreed upon term. Jazz bass growl has lots of examples to point to, but growl in general seems to be pretty open to personal interpretation!

Talk about discussing growl with an 11 year old... yeesh! Come o think of it, it might be more rewarding!!

If you do not understand, be silent, or learn.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

As I said before this was mostly from US-based magazines like "International Musician" etc.

http://www.internationalmusician.org/



Maybe I would have looked at Wiki and read this :

"Fender Jaguar Bass
In 2005, Fender introduced the Fender Jaguar Bass. This is more or less a variation on the traditional J-Bass design - the difference being that it has additional switches to turn the active J pickups on and off and it has a switch to turn it from an active to a passive bass.

The Jaguar bass retains the slim Jazz neck, bi-pole pickups, Jazzmaster/Jaguar body design and the trademark Jazz growl."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fender_Jazz_Bass

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

Or maybe I could have copied things I had read in Bass Player:

"The Bass of Doom is the best-sounding and feeling fretless I’ve ever fingered. It’s very light and very resonant, with the extra-narrow neck of early Jazz Basses. Stroked softly closer to the neck, the warm Jaco mwah sound filled the air; plucking harder, back by the bridge, resulted in his trademark biting growl; and harmonics seemed to just explode off the wood."

http://www.bassplayer.com/article/ja...r/mar-08/34267

I rest my case!


QED

[BillMason]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

I rest my case!

Yay!! I win!

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

...the trademark Jazz growl."

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

...resulted in his trademark biting growl...

Key words are all of the qualifiers that distinguish these types of growl from any other possible types of growl, such as Warwick growl; "biting," "his trademark," "trademark Jazz..." etc.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by BillMason

Yay!! I win!

You said it!

[Happynoj]

Originally Posted by J-B'ass

I always thought of chops as meaning the flashy fills and solos, and just generally technically impressive musical passages, I never thought of it as endurance
Growl for me just means literal growl, any middy, grunty sound, or just dissonance. On a bass, even a perfect fifth growls nicely

+1

[BillMason]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

You said it!

No hard feelings Bruce, I like a good debate.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by BillMason

No hard feelings Bruce, I like a good debate.

Same here!

[BillMason]

To the original poster: Have we answered your question?

[Nikoubis]

Originally Posted by BillMason

To the original poster: Have we answered your question?

What question?

[Bruce Lindfield]

Or have you come to the conclusion that there are some questions better not asked...