Collateral Damage

[stagebanter]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

Then he should have told you that already.

Oh, thanks for the advice, Internet Guy. I'll strike it from the contract immediately.

On a real note though, there are a couple of other people I know who have clauses like this in their contracts, and there have been occasions when they actually had to use them, and they worked.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by stagebanter

Oh, thanks for the advice, Internet Guy. I'll strike it from the contract immediately.

On a real note though, there are a couple of other people I know who have clauses like this in their contracts, and there have been occasions when they actually had to use them, and they worked.

Of course.

[Febs]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

Of course.

Why do you think indemnification clauses are unenforceable?

[stagebanter]

Originally Posted by Febs

Why do you think indemnification clauses are unenforceable?

I'm assuming he's a lawyer and knows something we don't know. But, I'm keeping it in my contract, because a contract is an actual thing that holds up in court.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by Febs

Why do you think indemnification clauses are unenforceable?

I think a clause obligating a venue owner to pay damages on band owned property, regardless of responsible party, doesn't pass the sniff test from a reasonable point of view. Furthermore. I'd guess the legal costs of enforcing such a clause would largely outweigh typical damages. Finally, I think you'd be hard pressed to find venue owners that would knowingly guarantee the safety of band vehicles in a publicly accessible parking lot.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by stagebanter

I'm assuming he's a lawyer and knows something we don't know. But, I'm keeping it in my contract, because a contract is an actual thing that holds up in court.

You can write anything on a piece of paper. That doesn't necessarily mean it will be enforced by the courts. In not a lawyer, but my job requires me to spend a lot of time with lawyers, legal documents, and the court system.

[jumblemind]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

I think a clause obligating a venue owner to pay damages on band owned property, regardless of responsible party, doesn't pass the sniff test from a reasonable point of view. Furthermore. I'd guess the legal costs of enforcing such a clause would largely outweigh typical damages. Finally, I think you'd be hard pressed to find venue owners that would knowingly guarantee the safety of band vehicles in a publicly accessible parking lot.

Derail alert, but this is also my understanding.

[stagebanter]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

Finally, I think you'd be hard pressed to find venue owners that would knowingly guarantee the safety of band vehicles in a publicly accessible parking lot.

Well, quite a lot of people have signed our contract that makes them fully responsible for damage to any musician's "person or property while located at the place of employment (Section 3 herein)". I guess we're just dumb for including that.

Lots of contractors include similar indemnity clauses in their contracts with employers. Hell, I have one in my standard contract for my business.

[jumblemind]

Not dumb. It's just not enforceable in this context, is what guy is saying.

[stagebanter]

In most of the standard performance agreements/riders you can find online, similar clauses are included. Here's an example:
http://www.vlaa.org/assets/documents...0Agreement.pdf

If it's not enforceable, then I guess I'll find that out if my gear ever gets stolen at a show and my insurance doesn't cover it for some reason, God forbid either of those things would happen.

[Demon_Hunter]

Stop with all this legal crap and get back to posting funny stories!!!

[stagebanter]

Originally Posted by Demon_Hunter

Stop with all this legal crap and get back to posting funny stories!!!

FINE!!! One time someone rear-ended me while I was playing at a private party! And we exchanged insurance information and...it...uh, it covered everything. Huh, I guess that wasn't funny. :-/ Sorry

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by stagebanter

Well, quite a lot of people have signed our contract that makes them fully responsible for damage to any musician's "person or property while located at the place of employment (Section 3 herein)". I guess we're just dumb for including that.

Lots of contractors include similar indemnity clauses in their contracts with employers. Hell, I have one in my standard contract for my business.

I deal with contractors and subcontractors all day. Never seen one ask the employer to guarantee the safety of their vehicle.

Lets be honest: many venue owners aren't too bright. They might unknowingly agree to guarantee the safety of your vehicle, but its unlikely that they would pay up if you tried to collect. If you took them to court, I believe you'd be hard pressed to convince a judge that they are financially obligated to pay, unless their negligence somehow contributed to the damages. The clause you included above is quite vague and open to interpretation in court.

[stagebanter]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

The clause you included above is quite vague and open to interpretation in court.

Yes, that's true. It is more to guarantee the safety of the gear than vehicles, but it is worded as "person and property" which could encompass a lot of things. Realistically, pursuing this for vehicle damage isn't worth it unless we're talking thousands of dollars and it's not safe to drive.

[thedudebrah]

Originally Posted by Demon_Hunter

Stop with all this legal crap and get back to posting funny stories!!!

Sig worthy!

[Stewie26]

Wow, this thread really got off track.

[4dog]

Originally Posted by Stewie26

I had this happen to me back in the 90's. Some D-bag decided to thrash some other poor guys skull against my car's hood multiple times in the parking lot during a show.
Lots of dents and even some blood on my hood. Now, after loading in, I park my vehicle as far as way as possible from the bar door exits. Live and learn.

The young guys never learn this till its too late, maybe it should be a stickie. Heh

[millsbass5]

Ugh, I've learned my lesson, the hard way over the years. And, like an idiot, it took me a few times for it to be ingrained into my brain. The straw that broke the camel's back? I had ordered me up a set of carbon fiber side-view mirrors from Germany for my BMW M5. Yup, it don't take a rocket scientist to figure out what happened to one of 'em out in the parking lot while 2 sots slugged it out by my car. So, after spending well over $450.00 for a replacement? You can bet your ass I try to park A-W-A-Y from where most of the "action" takes place, but within eye-shot of the door so I can at least keep an eye on it. What was weird is that I never found the damn thing. Just wires hangin' for the adjustment and the heat for the mirror. What in the hell would someone want with a broken side-view mirror? The could've been cool about it and left there, at least.

[Bassist4Eris]

This crap would never happen outside of a hash bar. Just sayin'.

[stagebanter]

Originally Posted by Bassist4Eris

This crap would never happen outside of a hash bar. Just sayin'.

The last hash bar gig I played, there was an armed robbery of a Frito-Lay Inc truck outside.