did buddy rich work on wall st?

[hgregs]

just found this on another forum... what a mean mf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-ssZ...layer_embedded

[Jim Campbell]

from what i've read buddy rich was almost born behind a drumset.....as a pre schooler he was known as "traps" and i think featured as part of a family or traveling act..........personalities aside,he was one of the best ever and you don't get that good unless you do the work......demanding high standards from your band is not that bad,but he did go overboard often with the abuse....

[raymondl3]

Love it! The world needs more of this.

[TheBasicBassist]

Sounds like one of my old professors. What a motivator, he got the band moving.

[pasta4lnch]

ha! been a while since I heard this. . .

there was a good one w/ Art Garfunkel going off on an engineer, but sorta in the opposite way

[CapnSev]

Yikes. I think I would have gotten off the bus at that point.

[jmac]

I don't get the wall street comment, but this clip is great. You can't find "1". lol.

[Technicolor]

Pay for the best, expect the best. Buddy had it right.

[lunarpollen]

He could have taken a lesson or two from Duke Ellington about how to deal with the members of one's band. Duke was the epitome of class. Buddy, not so much.

[jkramer5]

He's a band leader, either listen to him and do what he asks, how he asks, or get off his stage.

I don't hear any of the musicians weeping in fear, or disagreeing, maybe it's because they know he's right.


LMAO at the above usage of the term "abuse". He's a man talking to other men. I'd love to read the book entitield "My Bandleader Yelled At Me So I Quit - The fast track to success in the Big Band era."

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by jkramer5

He's a band leader, either listen to him and do what he asks, how he asks, or get off his stage.

I don't hear any of the musicians weeping in fear, or disagreeing, maybe it's because they know he's right.


LMAO at the above usage of the term "abuse". He's a man talking to other men. I'd love to read the book entitield "My Bandleader Yelled At Me So I Quit - The fast track to success in the Big Band era."

i dunno.....guys on a bus far from home,depending on you for a paycheck,don't have a lot of options,and i'm not sure that screaming at people ids the best motivator.......

the best rich story i heard is from a well known geetar guy......they had been rehearsing and ran through the tune ten times,and the geetar guy nailed all ten.......on the eleventh he hit a clam,after which buddy said "are you with us ...."

imho rich was a tad too fixated on flawless performances of some "meh" music,and maybe loosening the reins might have got better output from his guys

[Fassa Albrecht]

Fact is that when these guy signed up to play with Buddy Rich, they KNEW they were signing up with the best, but also with the biggest tosser on the face of the planet.

Simple survival strategy: shut up, do as you're told and you'll be fine.

I know I would give body-parts to play in a band with a drummer of the same level as him. I wouldn't CARE about the abuse.

Als

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by Fassa Albrecht

Fact is that when these guy signed up to play with Buddy Rich, they KNEW they were signing up with the best, but also with the biggest tosser on the face of the planet.

Simple survival strategy: shut up, do as you're told and you'll be fine.

I know I would give body-parts to play in a band with a drummer of the same level as him. I wouldn't CARE about the abuse.

Als

if only it were that simple.....in music,sports,and armed conflict there is no guarantee of a great performance every time.....even with all the effort in the world.....rich expected the same level of commitment from his guys that he had......without the rewards of being the leader.....perhaps a job that takes you far from home,with little remuneration,glory,or recognition would give you a little insight....

[Fassa Albrecht]

Originally Posted by Jim Campbell

if only it were that simple.....in music,sports,and armed conflict there is no guarantee of a great performance every time.....even with all the effort in the world.....rich expected the same level of commitment from his guys that he had......without the rewards of being the leader.....perhaps a job that takes you far from home,with little remuneration,glory,or recognition would give you a little insight....

It was always going to be Rich's band, no matter what.


And on the point about being a bandleader and rewards, I don't see how it could be any other way. Every band has its face, and Rich was his band's face.

[amadeusex]

Two of my beloved teachers were bass players in Buddy's band. They never complained about his attitude. Maybe because they were able to 'deliver the goods'.

Also some other teacher of mine (Alphonso Johnson) gave us a very valuable advice back then: If you feel that a gig is a little too demanding for you just turn it down ...

[Bassflute]

In spite of my great respect for Buddy as one of the greatest drummers of all time, and certainly the MASTER of snare drum rudimentary technique, he was simply an AWFUL human being, especially in his later years, having apparently used WAY too much coke for too long, and being subject to coke rage. I have this from first hand accounts of people who played in his band, and other musicians who played with musicians in his band. Here's a few responses to what some others are saying, based on what I know second and third hand...

Originally Posted by hgregs

just found this on another forum... what a mean mf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-ssZ...layer_embedded

Yup, nasty, which is why this circulated AFTER his death; musicians wanted people to know what was really happening, and were growing tired of all the idealized tributes going on.

Originally Posted by raymondl3

Love it! The world needs more of this.

No, we don't. Ever been in a band with a bunch of cokeheads? I have...it's horrible; it's like having a grenade in the band with the pin pulled, just waiting for it to go off; completely unpredictable. This is even worse - it's Buddy Rich.

Originally Posted by CapnSev

Yikes. I think I would have gotten off the bus at that point.

He would apparently THROW people off the bus, anytime of day or night, winter or summer, in the middle of a cornfield, the mountains, wherever, no money, no nothing, all their belongings, instruments. Horrible. Also, the man had a black belt in Karate, so he was NOT someone you'd want to tangle with.

Originally Posted by Technicolor

Pay for the best, expect the best. Buddy had it right.

He was paying BARE MINIMUM wages, the least he could get away with, and treated his band like absolute ****. He went through a LOT of musicians in the last few years; had a key core of players whom he would treat well, the rest of them were pee-ons and completely expendable at his whim. He would hire young kids right out of school, and expect them to learn one of the hardest books in the world immediately, flawlessly, and play them at ridiculous tempos first time out, no rehearsal, no time to work on it, and there WAS no internet back then, so finding recordings could be very difficult. Some of these young people were extremely intimidated to begin with, hired by Buddy Rich out of the blue, and then to get treated like this...horrible.

Originally Posted by lunarpollen

He could have taken a lesson or two from Duke Ellington about how to deal with the members of one's band. Duke was the epitome of class. Buddy, not so much.

!?...unless your name was Billy Strayhorn...class, I don't know about that...a carefully managed public persona; definitely. You should see the documentary on Billy Strayhorn on PBS, based on more recent stuff they have unearthed...Duke was perhaps not the great, kindly old guy he made himself out to be...

Originally Posted by jkramer5

He's a band leader, either listen to him and do what he asks, how he asks, or get off his stage.

I don't hear any of the musicians weeping in fear, or disagreeing, maybe it's because they know he's right.

LMAO at the above usage of the term "abuse". He's a man talking to other men. I'd love to read the book entitield "My Bandleader Yelled At Me So I Quit - The fast track to success in the Big Band era."

Get a grip, this was NOT THE BIG BAND ERA, THIS WAS THE 80'S, and a lot of these players were in their early 20's, pulled out of school, and thrown into the middle of this freak show. There weren't many 'men' left who knew about him who would play with him.

Originally Posted by Jim Campbell

if only it were that simple.....in music,sports,and armed conflict there is no guarantee of a great performance every time.....even with all the effort in the world.....rich expected the same level of commitment from his guys that he had......without the rewards of being the leader.....perhaps a job that takes you far from home,with little remuneration,glory,or recognition would give you a little insight....

Buddy Rich commanded a good sum of money for his performances, but it was expensive maintaining a big band on the road. We will never know the full financial story, possibly; he was likely under a LOT of stress trying to keep this all going, but then a lot of the loot was going straight up his nose, so it is hard to feel sorry for him or justify him treating ANY human being like this, but especially young 20 year old musicians straight out of college.

It's too bad this all had to be dredged up again...we should just let that whole, nasty era fade out, and leave the great parts of Buddy's legacy and his amazing music and drumming intact for future generations - some of Buddy's playing is still touted as the best, EVER, stuff that will never be equalled or surpassed. But I guess there are still people alive who were on the receiving end of this that want THAT part of the sad story told. And then there's the people who like staring at accident scenes...

:>(

Cheers,
Cameron

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by Fassa Albrecht

It was always going to be Rich's band, no matter what.


And on the point about being a bandleader and rewards, I don't see how it could be any other way. Every band has its face, and Rich was his band's face.

so all the clerks at 711 have the same motivation as the ceo

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by Bassflute

In spite of my great respect for Buddy as one of the greatest drummers of all time, and certainly the MASTER of snare drum rudimentary technique, he was simply an AWFUL human being, especially in his later years, having apparently used WAY too much coke for too long, and being subject to coke rage. I have this from first hand accounts of people who played in his band, and other musicians who played with musicians in his band. Here's a few responses to what some others are saying, based on what I know second and third hand...



Yup, nasty, which is why this circulated AFTER his death; musicians wanted people to know what was going on, and were growing tired of all the idealized tributes going on.



No, we don't. Ever been in a band with a bunch of cokeheads? I have...it's horrible. This is even worse - it's Buddy Rich.



He would apparently THROW people off the bus, anytime of day or night, winter or summer, in the middle of a cornfield, the mountains, wherever, no money, no nothing, all their belongings, instruments. Horrible. Also, the man had a black belt in Karate, so he was NOT someone you'd want to tangle with.



He was paying BARE MINIMUM wages, the least he could get away with, and treated his band like absolute ****. He went through a LOT of musicians in the last few years; had a key core of players whom he would treat well, the rest of them were pee-ons and completely expendable at his whim. He would hire young kids right out of school, and expect them to learn one of the hardest books in the world immediately, flawlessly, and play them at ridiculous tempos first time out, no rehearsal, no time to work on it, and there WAS no internet back then, so finding recordings could be very difficult. Some of these young people were extremely intimidated to begin with, hired by Buddy Rich out of the blue, and then to get treated like this...horrible.



!?...unless your name was Billy Strayhorn...class, I don't know about that...a carefully managed public persona; definitely. You should see the documentary on Billy Strayhorn on PBS, based on more recent stuff they have unearthed...Duke was perhaps not the great, kindly old guy he made himself out to be...



Get a grip, this was NOT THE BIG BAND ERA, THIS WAS THE 80'S, and a lot of these players were in their early 20's, pulled out of school, and thrown into the middle of this freak show. There weren't many 'men' left who knew about him who would play with him.



Buddy Rich commanded a good sum of money for his performances, but it was expensive maintaining a big band on the road. We will never know the full financial story, possibly; he was likely under a LOT of stress trying to keep this all going, but then a lot of the loot was going straight up his nose, so it is hard to feel sorry for him or justify him treating ANY human being like this, but especially young 20 year old musicians straight out of college.

It's too bad this all had to be dredged up again...we should just let that whole, nasty era fade out, and leave the great parts of Buddy's legacy and his amazing music and drumming intact for future generations. But I guess there are still people alive who were on the receiving end of this that want THAT part of the sad story told.

Cheers,
Cameron

i agree.....
i think it was important that it be told......but not ad infinum

[Fassa Albrecht]

This thread has made me feel so bad...

[IPA]

I love how back in the day, even when people went off on cuss-laden tirades, they still had that old-timey enunciation.