Does this tick anyone else off???

[THUNDERGODX]

Originally Posted by lowfreq33

Probably going to get an infraction for this, but...

A young gynecologist just out of medical school lands a job with a small private practice in Nashville. As it happens his first week he'll be covering appointments for the chief gyno while he's on vacation. Strictly routine examinations.

His first patient comes in, disrobes and put her feet in the stirrups. As he leans in to begin the exam he faintly hears "Crazy..."

He decides he must be hearing things, finishes the exam, and has the nurse bring in the next patient. Again, feet in the stirrups, "Crazy..."

As the day goes on this happens with every patient. Later at home the doctor he's covering for calls to ask him how things went. He details his experience, sure that he's about to be sent to the loony bin. The senior gynecologist just laughs and says, "Son, this is Nashville. Every **** in town thinks she's Patsy Cline!"

LMFAO!!!!!!

[duff beer]

Originally Posted by PopaWoody

FWIW if the singer can sing, what the hell does it matter if they know musical theory? SMH some of you trained guys that think their caca dont stink need to give it a rest.

I know guitar players who might know what key a song is in, but they couldn't tell you the time signature, the mode the lead is in, or a dozen other musical facts about the song.

Our singer doesn't know the key of any songs we do, but more importantly, he knows his range and knows whether or not he is able to sing in the key of any new song we try.

[jay tay]

How many singers does it take to change a light bulb... one they hold the bulb in place and then the world revolves around them.

Some singers really boil my urine...

As a student I was in a Metal band, and the singer (whom knew nothing about music theory) truly believed he was the "leader" of the band, seriously he didn't even write the lyrics, he was just a front man, (though he did have good pipes). I remember one day he was raging at me because my amp was broke, and I had to practice with my small underpowered backup amp until I could afford to replace it...

He went on and on about how unprofessional it was, (bare in mind that most of the band were students, and hard up on cash) He didn't even have his own mic.

I called a band meeting and said it was ether him or me, long story short the week after we had a new singer.

Also he only understood two types of key, keys that open doors, and keys that you don't want to get caught in an airport with, GRRRR!!!!

Ok rant over.

[Gaius46]

Originally Posted by Sartori

I'm really not sure why people bother with "lead singers" who aren't also instrumentalists of some kind.

While I agree there are lots of posers out there real singers, those who can use their voices like the instruments thy are, are worth heir weight in old.

Our female front is, like the rest of us, middle aged and not the greatest looking girl in the world. But she is a Berklee grad and an absolutely phenomenal vocalist - and a competent rhythm guitarist. You can keep the hot young wannabes. Wouldn't trade her for dozen of them.

[two fingers]

Originally Posted by SBsoundguy

Play the original key of the song unless they state otherwise.

This. I have worked with some incredible singers who don't know the first thing about music. But they can hold an audience in the palm of their hand. And, after all, that's what we're here to do. So, if I had to choose between an amazing singer with no music theory skills, and a pretty good singer with an in dept knowledge of music theory, it would be no contest every time. Hire the great singer and work out the details later. (The same goes for any instrument as well.)

That being said, if she didn't know anything about music AND didn't sing all that well, that's a different story.

[lfmn16]

Originally Posted by two fingers

So, if I had to choose between an amazing singer with no music theory skills, and a pretty good singer with an in dept knowledge of music theory, it would be no contest every time.

Way off topic. I'm not talking about music theory; I'm talking about knowing what key you are singing in. I can't answer for anyone else, but I've worked with a lot of singers who sing songs in non-original keys. The singer that set me off was a female singer who had a lot of songs written for male singers on her list. How difficult would it have been to have written the key on the list?

[rtav]

We auditioned vocalists for two years before we found one who could nail the key and the notes - it's AMAZING how few singers can HEAR, much less know anything about music. If they can't sing the song acapella in pitch and in the correct key(s) from start to finish, show them the door. They're like any other musician - their voice IS their instrument and you should have the same expectations for a vocalist as you would a bassist or any other musician in the band.

Yeah, it would totally piss me off - audition is over.

[Kmonk]

Originally Posted by rtav

We auditioned vocalists for two years before we found one who could nail the key and the notes - it's AMAZING how few singers can HEAR, much less know anything about music. If they can't sing the song acapella in pitch and in the correct key(s) from start to finish, show them the door. They're like any other musician - their voice IS their instrument and you should have the same expectations for a vocalist as you would a bassist or any other musician in the band.

Yeah, it would totally piss me off - audition is over.

+1

Some people just have no self awareness. My band just found a singer after holding auditions for a year and a half.

[Downunderwonder]

Originally Posted by lfmn16

The singer that set me off was a female singer who had a lot of songs written for male singers on her list. How difficult would it have been to have written the key on the list?

Rhetorical question? It depends on how the list came about. Not desperately hard for someone with intent to make things easier. Even if they had no instrumental skills it could be done by getting a hand from someone else.

Lemons, lemonade or hissy fit, your choice. I trust you got her to write the newly discovered keys down on her list so the next band she happens to annoy is saved?

[Munjibunga]

Ask them if E^# works for them. Their answer will tell you a lot about them.

[Sartori]

Originally Posted by Gaius46

While I agree there are lots of posers out there real singers, those who can use their voices like the instruments thy are, are worth heir weight in old.

Our female front is, like the rest of us, middle aged and not the greatest looking girl in the world. But she is a Berklee grad and an absolutely phenomenal vocalist - and a competent rhythm guitarist. You can keep the hot young wannabes. Wouldn't trade her for dozen of them.

See, your singer would qualify as "also an instrumentalist."

My friend's band had a really great lead singer. While in the band he only sang, outside it, he also played guitar, bass, lute, and sitar.

[lfmn16]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

Lemons, lemonade or hissy fit, your choice. I trust you got her to write the newly discovered keys down on her list so the next band she happens to annoy is saved?

Not a hissy fit, just an observation so don't get your panties in a knot. And no, I didn't write down the keys for the singer. I don't know how you do things, but I expect people who come to audition to act as professionals, I'm not teaching a class or holding a seminar.

[Ezmar]

How necessary is it for a singer to know offhand what key the song is in? I've been singing my whole life, and I just sing by ear. I suppose if I thought about it, I could say what key it was, but I don't think that NOT knowing offhand that a song is in 'E' really makes a difference. I don't know what key a lot of the songs I play instrumentally are in, although it's much simpler to figure out. I just don't think of key much at all, especially if there's a lot of modulation and changes going on.

For background purposes, I taught myself bass and guitar, but I had 7 years of cello lessons before learning guitar/bass, and a year of piano. So I have a strong grasp of theory and chords, scales, key, etc, I just don't find myself needing to know what key a song us in unless I'm jumping right into a song without knowing it at all. Although I've been told I have a PHENOMENAL ear.

[lfmn16]

Originally Posted by Ezmar

How necessary is it for a singer to know offhand what key the song is in?

It's only necessary if they want to sound their best. Example - Some kind of wonderful by Grand Funk. I think the original key is D. I played with a singer that sang it in A. I CAN sing it in A or D, but A is too low and D is a little too high. The key of C is my sweet spot that allows me to have a little grit to my voice without straining.

I never had a song list that didn't include the key of the song. Even our set lists that are handed out before each gig have the key. I'm really surprised how many people are willing to give singers a pass on this. We all have our own ideas about what constitutes professionalism.

[Ezmar]

Originally Posted by lfmn16

It's only necessary if they want to sound their best. Example - Some kind of wonderful by Grand Funk. I think the original key is D. I played with a singer that sang it in A. I CAN sing it in A or D, but A is too low and D is a little too high. The key of C is my sweet spot that allows me to have a little grit to my voice without straining.

Ah. See, I have a very generous range, so I rarely have to worry about what I can sing. I just sing everything in its normal range, from The Doors to Heart.

I guess I take offense to the blanket complaint, the assertion that "everyone needs to know this, or they're not good enough." I mean, I can understand the frustration when singers can't match key, but I don't like the implication that 'Everyone' needs to be aware of the key by name. I guess I'd say it's "unprofessional" if you need to know. Like if you were totally prepared to perform without knowing right offhand what the name of the song's key is, I have no problem with that, if they're able to adapt to things by ear. But if they can't get it by ear, then they'd probably need to know the key.

I really don't understand that, since I have perfect pitch, and can tell when a song is in a different key. (Assuming it has one, stuff like "Happy Birthday" always sounds right.)

[Double E]

Here's a good question...what defines the "key" a song is in? I feel that most think it is simply the first chord that is played, which I'm not sure is always the "key" .

I am not sure I can fully answer the question myself, I am curious how a more knowledgeable musician than myself might explain.

[theduke1]

Originally Posted by SBsoundguy

Play the original key of the song unless they state otherwise.

+1

[lfmn16]

Originally Posted by Ezmar

I guess I'd say it's "unprofessional" if you need to know.)

Sorry, but I don't think this even makes sense. How is it unprofessional to make sure that everyone has a common understanding of what they are about to start playing? When did we elevate ignorance over knowledge?

Knowing what key you play in or sing in is all part of being prepared and making sure everyone is on the same page. When I audition for a band I ask what key, what version, and if there is anything I need to know before we start. If that's unprofessional so be it, but in 41 years, no one has ever had a problem with that.

Bravo on your impressive vocal range, but I would be very surprised if you can sing every song equally well in any key.

[Ezmar]

Originally Posted by lfmn16

Sorry, but I don't think this even makes sense. How is it unprofessional to make sure that everyone has a common understanding of what they are about to start playing? When did we elevate ignorance over knowledge?

Knowing what key you play in or sing in is all part of being prepared and making sure everyone is on the same page. When I audition for a band I ask what key, what version, and if there is anything I need to know before we start. If that's unprofessional so be it, but in 41 years, no one has ever had a problem with that.

Bravo on your impressive vocal range, but I would be very surprised if you can sing every song equally well in any key.

I meant it would be unprofessional to not know if you didn't have the ear, vocal range, or musical ability to make the key a trivial matter. After I wrote that, I sort of thought it might be rather unclear. So apologies there.

Of course it's important for everyone to be on the same page, but being an ex-music major, I'm very sensitive to anything implying that I need "proper" musical training. I mean, I suppose I know what key any song I sing regularly is in, even if I can't immediately tell others. Key names are sort of an abstraction to me, although they're necessary if you're going to try and efficiently relay any musical information to others.

So yeah, I probably took this thread a little more personally than I should have. But I agree, it's frustrating trying to play with Someone who has no idea about keys or transposition, and aren't flexible enough to adapt without wasting massive amounts of time that often aren't available.

[Gaius46]

Originally Posted by Double E

Here's a good question...what defines the "key" a song is in? I feel that most think it is simply the first chord that is played, which I'm not sure is always the "key" .

I am not sure I can fully answer the question myself, I am curious how a more knowledgeable musician than myself might explain.

You really have to look at the chords being used to figure out the key - keeping in mind that key may shift as the song progresses.