Drummers

pfactor2 · #1 01-28-2012, 11:24 AM

Just venting here. Does any one know a good drummer. Or am I the only one who finds myself playing straight so the current Buddy Rich has more space to overplay. I'm playing with a great drummer, but not so great at listening to what's going on around him. Damn it frustrating, I'll tell him as sweet as I can at rehearsal ,Keep it plain and simple, you are in a 10 piece band there is no room for extra fills . Of course he agrees , but inevitably finds his own zone. Well that's my gig story. Sorry it's so negative.

waleross · #2 01-28-2012, 12:01 PM

There is a full thread on drummers from yesterday. I have been taking drum lessons for almost a year and my instructor (25 yrs old ) is a good above average drummer. He teaches kids at middle school (drum line) and a good teacher for me. I hear it all the time about drummers some are good and some aren't. How about bass players, guitars and keys, some can play and some have great amps and a PA system. Good luck

67precision · #3 01-30-2012, 11:47 AM

I had a friend of the band ask me the other night after the show if I follow the drummer or it's the other way around - I told him [the drummer] doesn't follow to me at all - he plays off the guitar players. The reason we sound tight is because I listen...

This happens far too often imho...

bassgod0dmw · #4 01-30-2012, 12:53 PM

I'm actually really happy with my drummer, he's excellent.

hennessybass · #5 01-30-2012, 01:16 PM

Drummers, man. I had a drummer with the same problem... "he agrees [about not overplaying] , but inevitably finds his own zone."

He was a no listening M*****F*****. Two guitar players and the keyboard player HATED it. I always stuck up for him, but I heard all the same stuff as they did.

I spent a few years with that guy, and I feel like it really changed me as a player. I always felt kind of forced to "keep it simple" and took on responsibility for holding down the beat for the band. I could be making this up, but seems to me like I lost some of my sense of melody and movement in my playing.

ksandvik · #6 01-30-2012, 01:17 PM

Good drummers could both play simple lines and busy lines that sound good. If neither, they are not good drummers.

StuartV · #7 01-30-2012, 01:36 PM

I am primarily a drummer. Been gigging regularly for the last 5 years or so - until I moved out here to Kalifornia last summer. I'm definitely not a great drummer. But, I think pretty much all the different people I have played with would at least agree that I keep decent time, have decent dynamics, and definitely do not overplay.

If I were going to rant, it would be about "guitarists". Particulary, tone prima donnas and playing too loud because they "couldn't hear themselves until they turned up."

JMimbs · #8 01-30-2012, 01:46 PM

I've actually played with some killer drummers, including a 19 year old kid from Dubai who could play like Mike Portnoy but would play like Chris Layton or Phil Rudd when he was with us. I could lock in with him like no other drummer I've ever played with; we didn't even have to look at each other.

hennessybass · #9 01-30-2012, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksandvik

Good drummers could both play simple lines and busy lines that sound good.

Yes to this - but I will add... The drummer should be able to listen to the SONG and the rest of the band and make a determination about which kind of lines to play! Then you have a good drummer.

That's where the "listening" skilz come in.

MysticMichael · #10 01-30-2012, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hennessybass

I spent a few years with that guy, and I feel like it really changed me as a player. I always felt kind of forced to "keep it simple" and took on responsibility for holding down the beat for the band. I could be making this up, but seems to me like I lost some of my sense of melody and movement in my playing.

I can relate. Long ago, I made the same mistake. Not anymore.

Herein lies one of the most virulent problems related to playing with deficient musicians: It throws you seriously off your game. And the longer you stay at it, the more profoundly it damages your musicianship.

That's why it's so crucial to seek out the very best musicians you can with whom to play - especially if they're better than you are. Because they help you to become a better player. And alas, as we've seen, the reverse is also true...

MM

ray_yo · #11 01-30-2012, 01:49 PM

anybody ever get the sense, after all these threads bitching about drummers, that if the OP's were better players they'd attract the drummers they want? i fully expect to get **** on for even suggesting this.

67precision · #12 01-30-2012, 01:55 PM

What I posted above isn't necessarily meant to be a "pile on" of the drummer, just a observation of this particular dude.

I have been fortunate throughout my career to play with some world class drummers - but since I no longer play in a large metro where there's lots of players, it's slim pickins.

67precision · #13 01-30-2012, 01:56 PM

oops - accidently posted... I might add:

The best drummers I have worked with are listeners, no matter what style of skill level.

Jake Saint · #14 01-30-2012, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StuartV

If I were going to rant, it would be about "guitarists". Particulary, tone prima donnas and playing too loud because they "couldn't hear themselves until they turned up."

and this is why i never give a guitarist control over their own sound when i'm running the deck in the back.

and if they argue with me, i very kindly remind them that i have all the suck knobs primed and ready.

Same with singers. lol.

LowEnd88 · #15 01-30-2012, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pfactor2

... I'm playing with a great drummer, but not so great at listening to what's going on around him...

=not great drummer

AtomicPunk · #16 01-30-2012, 04:32 PM

My drummer insists on doing "Cymbal Buzz" through songs where there are no drums happening. Everyone in the band has asked him to stop doing it but he does it anyway. It annoys me when I am supposed to be playing lines sympathetic to the guitar players lines and all I can hear is "SHSHSHSSHHSSHHSHSHSHSHSHSHSHHSHSHSHSHSHSHSSSS !!"

kcole4001 · #17 01-30-2012, 05:19 PM

A good, tasteful, and dynamic drummer seems to be rare.
Luckily I know a couple, and currently play in bands with both.

I've played with the others also, and if one guy can make a band sound bad in a hurry, it's the singer or drummer, pretty much equally.
Non-musicians can be pretty ignorant regarding everything else, but if the vocals or drums are wrong, they know it immediately.

Mike11121 · #18 01-30-2012, 10:22 PM

I have worked woth a lot of drummers, but only 2 for any length of time (as in 5 years for the first, and 2 years for the second).

Firstly, both were what I consider to be very proficient and "musical" drummers (if you know what I mean) - not just bash it as hard and fast as you can.

Drummer A was what I would call "loose". That's not meant as a bad thing - he could (and would) play slightly ahead or slightly behind, and by locking in with him there was a nice tension that created a groove. Hard to explain, but I'm sure you at least kinda know what I mean. He would speed up and slow down slightly during songs which I found difficult to start with, but after a while I got used to speeding up and slowing down with him almost unconciously. I only really noticed it when listening to live recordings back with click track, but it sounded tight live.

Drummer B was a technician. He was much more schooled than A and could run pretty much any style at will, and do all sorts of cool stuff. I was really impressed for a while (and he is still an amazing drummer), but it did end up feeling sort of mechanical, like playing to a metronome. I think it still sounded good, but to me always kinda lacked "feel" (whatever that is), and the connection with him for me was never as strong as with A.

The one thing they both had in common, though, was that they definately listened to the band. Some drummers think their job is to drive it along, but if the rhythm section ain't happening (all of it), then the band ain't happening IMHO.

pfactor2 · #19 01-31-2012, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 67precision

I had a friend of the band ask me the other night after the show if I follow the drummer or it's the other way around - I told him [the drummer] doesn't follow to me at all - he plays off the guitar players. The reason we sound tight is because I listen...

This happens far too often imho...

Not good man, I also play with a Jazz band and this drummer follows the pianist , which literally chops up the rhythm.

pfactor2 · #20 01-31-2012, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hennessybass

Drummers, man. I had a drummer with the same problem... "he agrees [about not overplaying] , but inevitably finds his own zone."

He was a no listening M*****F*****. Two guitar players and the keyboard player HATED it. I always stuck up for him, but I heard all the same stuff as they did.

I spent a few years with that guy, and I feel like it really changed me as a player. I always felt kind of forced to "keep it simple" and took on responsibility for holding down the beat for the band. I could be making this up, but seems to me like I lost some of my sense of melody and movement in my playing.

Frustrating isn't it. Not happy this is happening to you , but I'm glad someone understands.