This ever happen to you?

[Funkee1]

This is a cross post from HCBF, and Marcusmiller.com

A few years ago, I went to a Jamm session, hoping to make some new contacts. My specialty is R&B, although I can do some jazz, and other stuff. My card says "All Styles" and it is true, but Dance stuff is my Forte.

Anyway, the band had been doing R&B all night till I got up. Suddenly, they wanna do "Giant Steps" which I love, but have a mental block about. Can't play it worth a Sh*T.

It was sink- or Swim, and I didn't drown, But it was not the Star making moment I hoped for.

Anyone had similar experiences?

[j-raj]

Sure, That's is when you go for it... Regardless, I understand that it could lead to bad PR, but there will be a couple cats that will see you as a 'bullet-proof' bassist that isn't afraid to fall on his/her face. Kudos and respect will follow accordingly.

*Remember, no matter your experience, age, tech-knowledge or whatever... "We are going to be students for the rest of our lives".

[jive1]

I agree with J-raj. I would respect a guy for trying to do a difficult passage like that. Who knows, you might might even fool me into thinking you know it and chose to do it a unique way.

I forgot who said it, but here's a great quote. "When you are wading through the weeds, remember that it all looks like a garden from heaven."

I've been in a couple of situations like yours where I have been in over my head. I just wade through it, and I figure out the song a measure or two before the end of the tune (Murphy's Law). For the tunes I can't figure out, I have learned 3 simple rules.
1) Rarely is someone paying more or equal attention to your playing than you are.
2) Flubbing a phrase once is a mistake, flubbing the phrase twice in a row is avante garde.
3) When all else fails, look cool.

[j-raj]

Originally posted by jive1
I agree with J-raj. I would respect a guy for trying to do a difficult passage like that. Who knows, you might might even fool me into thinking you know it and chose to do it a unique way.

Right-on, THX Dude!

I've been in a couple of situations like yours where I have been in over my head. I just wade through it, and I figure out the song a measure or two before the end of the tune (Murphy's Law). For the tunes I can't figure out, I have learned 3 simple rules.
1) Rarely is someone paying more or equal attention to your playing than you are.
2) Flubbing a phrase once is a mistake, flubbing the phrase twice in a row is avante garde.
3) When all else fails, look cool.

Exactly, You are the biggest critic, and the one most conscience of your job on a particular tune. If you repeat any phrase more than once, the audience will think it is part of the tune, the band members will think it is substitution chord/Alternate phrase.

You gotta be cool, regardless of what's going on.




*A couple years ago I played a New Years eve gig, (pop-rock/Classic Rock/blues cover gig), I was getting a little festive (jager) and the singer started to notice that I was slurring the basslines and messing up a tiny bit... So she leans over and back (I was behind her to the left) to tell me to 'chill-out' a little bit. Granted, We were all really loud and I couldn't hear her very well, So I leaned forward a little bit. LOST-MY-BALANCE and fell into her, knocking her face into the mic and busting her lip a bit... She was pissed, had a fat lip, we had one more set and I sobered up pretty fast... her husband was in the crowd and was staring at me the whole rest of the night with the worse look on his face.




*disclaimer: I'm a very professional bassist, honestly... and I learnt my lesson well that evening. I don't do that sort of thing on gigs anymore!

[Funkee1]

Originally posted by j-raj


Right-on, THX Dude




*A couple years ago I played a New Years eve gig, (pop-rock/Classic Rock/blues cover gig), I was getting a little festive (jager) and the singer started to notice that I was slurring the basslines and messing up a tiny bit... So she leans over and back (I was behind her to the left) to tell me to 'chill-out' a little bit. Granted, We were all really loud and I couldn't hear her very well, So I leaned forward a little bit. LOST-MY-BALANCE and fell into her, knocking her face into the mic and busting her lip a bit... She was pissed, had a fat lip, we had one more set and I sobered up pretty fast... her husband was in the crowd and was staring at me the whole rest of the night with the worse look on his face.




*disclaimer: I'm a very professional bassist, honestly... and I learnt my lesson well that evening. I don't do that sort of thing on gigs anymore!

We've all had the drank too much gig. That's a great story, though.

BTW Marcus replied, saying he once did a session, early in his career, where the bassline was written out note- for note. He could read, but it was a struggle. The same guy saw him 30 years later, and sain"I see you got that reading thing worked out!"

You can see it yourself a www.marcusmiller.com.

[j-raj]

Originally posted by Funkee1


We've all had the drank too much gig. That's a great story, though.

BTW Marcus replied, saying he once did a session, early in his career, where the bassline was written out note- for note. He could read, but it was a struggle. The same guy saw him 30 years later, and said "I see you got that reading thing worked out!"

You can see it yourself a www.marcusmiller.com.

Yeah man, I think he "got that reading thing worked out!"... LOL!

Still working on it myself.


Yeah I know that there are bunch of gigs that we have all had too much to drink... I've just been scrambl'n for gigs, no bassist can afford bad PR... ya know what I mean?

[RobbieK]

Before they could count in the Coltrane tune, you should have started up the bass line to Walking on the Moon by The Police. You could have said later that you thought that's what they meant.

[keylock71]

I think one of the most humblest moments as a bass player for me was a few years back. I had met up with these two guitarists who had been jamming with each other for years, and were just fantastic musicians. They caught a gig for a band I was in at the time and wanted me to play bass on some original stuff they were recording. They invited me over to their practice pad for a session. I showed up and was a little dismayed to find not only the guitarists, but a bunch of their friends hanging around. It was almost like a party scene, 'cept nobody told me it was going to be a party. They show me the tunes they got, and I just couldn't wrap my head around them. Probably for a number of reasons -nervousness, insecurity about learning these songs in front of a bunch of strangers, the fact that all the tunes were musically intricate and involved and I just wasn't up to the challenge. I muddled through best I could, managing to at least hold the bottom end on most of the songs. Afterwards, I felt like just packing my **** up, tucking my tail between my legs, and go back to my three-chord bash 'em out rock band. However, I figured that was just my ego getting in the way. I stuck around, had a few beers, apologized for my incompetence, and ended up making some pretty good friends out of the deal.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally posted by jive1
I agree with J-raj. I would respect a guy for trying to do a difficult passage like that.

Yeah - but Giant Steps is hardly "difficult" - it's just a load of II-V(7)-I's !!

[moley]

Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield


Yeah - but Giant Steps is hardly "difficult" - it's just a load of II-V(7)-I's !!

You ever soloed over it, Bruce?

[Wrong Robot]

That has happened to me, and it was with giant steps.

I just grit my teethers, and dove in.

I had the chart in front of me and that helped.

afterward all my friends said "dude, why do you even bother with electric bass, you have to be na upright player"

and strangers said "wow, you really played fantastically"

and people that knew I was an electric player but not an upright player said "that was amazing"

basically, it was one of the coolest things ever for me.

[j-raj]

Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield


Yeah - but Giant Steps is hardly "difficult" - it's just a load of II-V(7)-I's !!

One Man's 'Giant Steps' might be Another Man's 'Peter Gunn'...


Man, I must suck at playing if I struggle with soloing over 'Giant Steps'... Thx Bruce, ya know... for the complex.




Hey wait I think that we have another submission for the "Ask a Pro!" thread section... I nominate Bruce Lindfield!

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally posted by moley


You ever soloed over it, Bruce?

Well - I can't see anything hard in it, but I was being tongue in cheek - just forgot the smiley!

I was thinking of Mark Levine's comments in the Jazz Theory book :

"Although "Giant Steps" is a very challenging tune, its 26 chords are just V-I and II-V-I progressions in only three keys : B,G and Eb "

I haven't actually played it with other people although I have played through it a few times on my own - but it always surprises me when you suggest playing it, that you get shocked reactions - where is the great difficulty?

[jive1]

Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield


"Although "Giant Steps" is a very challenging tune, its 26 chords are just V-I and II-V-I progressions in only three keys : B,G and Eb "

I haven't actually played it with other people although I have played through it a few times on my own - but it always surprises me when you suggest playing it, that you get shocked reactions - where is the great difficulty?

That's the Jazzer's answer to everything. Everything is II-V, or some inversion or permutation of it. It's kinda like looking at those Magic Eye things where you are supposed to see a dragon come out of wierd pattern. Some see it, some don't. But Jazzers seem to have the "Magic Eye" to see the II-V in everything (or relate everything to II-V)

[Bruce Lindfield]

Well, Jazz is 90% made up of of II-V-I's - maybe even 95% - this is the basic stuff of which most jazz tunes are constructed.

It's nothing mysterious - in fact it's been like this since the 1940s or before!! It's when it's not II-V-Is that it gets harder!

[moley]

The tricky thing with Giant Steps is the keys it goes through - B, G, and Eb - seemingly unrelated keys. It moves quickly between those seemingly unrelated keys. That, and it's pretty damn fast

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally posted by moley
The tricky thing with Giant Steps is the keys it goes through - B, G, and Eb - seemingly unrelated keys. It moves quickly between those seemingly unrelated keys. That, and it's pretty damn fast

Well, I can see that's a problem for horn players, who tend to stick to a few keys with which they are "secure" - but my view as a bass player is that which key I'm playing doesn't realy matter - due to the nature of especially bass guitar - you can shift ideas into any key very easily.

So - whereas, I can see that horn players struggle with C# - for me it's just a case of shifting what I would have done in C - up a fret! I know that's a simplistic example, but I know Jazz tunes that shift key more frequently and - you don't have to play it fast - I've heard piano trio versions that have slowed it down considerably - and in bass solos, it is often quite nice to slow things down and play less notes - so you're playing quarter notes throughout at high tempo and then for a bass solo, play fewer notes, but try to be more melodic...for example?