Guitard intentionally butchered 3rd set!!!

[mward69]

So a little rant and funny story...My band is a cover band, been together 4 yrs, we are on our 3rd guitar player for various reasons ranging from drunks to Job/family matters.
So I newest guy has earned his spot and was with us for a year to the day that he left...{last night} It all began about a month ago, he started really messing up, and would get pissy when we tell him. Plus he insist he be turned up in the voc. mix even though he is tone deaf {not being mean either}
He's a really nice guy, unless you say something about performance. So with any team..we get another player with killer chops, and killer harmony voc. WE were planning on keeping the old guitar player and approached him as a band to tell him about getting the new guy in, and basically sending him to the bull pen. Taking him off MOST {not all} solo's and completely off the mic. He was cool...or so we though...1 and 2nd set was ok, the new player played on about 1/2 of the 2nd set. Right before the 3rd started, the band leader/singer tell's the new player to take ALL the solos for the set. Old player said "no prob" 1st song...old guitar player starts cutting heads...ripping some god awful solos on top of the new guys..turning his amp to 11 we knew it was going to be a long night...by the time the 3rd song hit, singer kills his channel so the ****er ran his amp beyond it's limits..feedback, ripping solo's all through the song..dancing like Barny on crack BY the last tune we were all like ***...thank god the bar was clearing out and the bar mngr was trashed...then the little ****er tell's us he ain't being put in the back and he wasn't leaving the band, that he will play like that every gig untill we "fix" the prob....well...we fixed it, dude....YOUR FIRED..here is 1/2 your pay for trashing the set!!!!
Why can't guitar players be laid back like us bassist???

[detracti]

Originally Posted by mward69

So a little rant and funny story...My band is a cover band, been together 4 yrs, we are on our 3rd guitar player for various reasons ranging from drunks to Job/family matters.
So I newest guy has earned his spot and was with us for a year to the day that he left...{last night} It all began about a month ago, he started really messing up, and would get pissy when we tell him. Plus he insist he be turned up in the voc. mix even though he is tone deaf {not being mean either}
He's a really nice guy, unless you say something about performance. So with any team..we get another player with killer chops, and killer harmony voc. WE were planning on keeping the old guitar player and approached him as a band to tell him about getting the new guy in, and basically sending him to the bull pen. Taking him off MOST {not all} solo's and completely off the mic. He was cool...or so we though...1 and 2nd set was ok, the new player played on about 1/2 of the 2nd set. Right before the 3rd started, the band leader/singer tell's the new player to take ALL the solos for the set. Old player said "no prob" 1st song...old guitar player starts cutting heads...ripping some god awful solos on top of the new guys..turning his amp to 11 we knew it was going to be a long night...by the time the 3rd song hit, singer kills his channel so the ****er ran his amp beyond it's limits..feedback, ripping solo's all through the song..dancing like Barny on crack BY the last tune we were all like ***...thank god the bar was clearing out and the bar mngr was trashed...then the little ****er tell's us he ain't being put in the back and he wasn't leaving the band, that he will play like that every gig untill we "fix" the prob....well...we fixed it, dude....YOUR FIRED..here is 1/2 your pay for trashing the set!!!!
Why can't guitar players be laid back like us bassist???

I don't think I would have taken that well either. I would have felt slighted.

Sounds like there might have been a place for a "coming to jesus" type talk with the old guitar player, about his performance issue. Maybe give him a chance to get back up to snuff or you were going to have to look at other options - like either cutting him loose, or getting him a partner to share the load.

Don't know, maybe you had that conversation, and he wasn't willing to be honest with himself.

As it was, you took his title away from him, and handed it to another player, with everyone there watching.

Kind of humiliating.

[Axtman]

One word: Ego

[M0ses]

IMO, You don't do that sort of thing in the middle of a gig. And by "that sort of thing", I mean redistribute parts. I think he had every right to be angry, but of course his reaction was horrible and totally inappropriate. Think the whole situation could have been handled better on everyone's part.

[pbass6811]

Originally Posted by M0ses

IMO, You don't do that sort of thing in the middle of a gig. And by "that sort of thing", I mean redistribute parts. I think he had every right to be angry, but of course his reaction was horrible and totally inappropriate. Think the whole situation could have been handled better on everyone's part.

+1. He obviously didn't handle the situation well, BUT, if I understand the way this was dealt with correctly, you guys brought this on yourselves. You replaced a member, AT A GIG?! Really? You could've had your "new" guitar player get up and do a couple of songs each set and then go sit back down. Then you coulda' told your "old" guitarist what was up AFTER the gig. Trying to replace a member before a show, or during a show, is not gonna get you guys in MENSA...

[The_Low_Dude]

I played in coverband with my brother. At some point he had told us he'd stop with the band, but not until after the one gig on our calendar, but he messed up real bad. Long story short: he forgot lyrics even though he had them in front of him and stuff like that.

I guess there'll always be someone to cause a little drama when you put some people together to work as a team.

[ehque]

To me it looks like the OP wasn't looking to replace the guy, just that he wanted one more band member to cover this guys crap.

Seems like he fired himself. And with the crap that he pulled, word will get around, and with any luck he won't be playing at another gig ever.

Originally Posted by mward69

tell's us he ain't being put in the back and he wasn't leaving the band, that he will play like that every gig untill we "fix" the prob

And this is the part that tells me the guitar has an ego the size of Manhattan. Thinks the band is his, and must serve his purposes.

Good you got rid of him.

[whitespike]

Dude, he gave you a year of his time. And for a few mistakes he got thrown in the back seat.

[Phalex]

Originally Posted by M0ses

IMO, You don't do that sort of thing in the middle of a gig. And by "that sort of thing", I mean redistribute parts. I think he had every right to be angry, but of course his reaction was horrible and totally inappropriate. Think the whole situation could have been handled better on everyone's part.

Yep. You guys threw the doors wide open. You shouldn't be surprised that trouble walked in.

[Medford Bassman]

In some ways, it reminds me of our drummer. We picked up our current drummer about 18 months ago after letting go of our last guy. Everything started off great. He's not a highly technical drummer but what he played when he first joined was solid and respectable. We didn't have a problem with him. I should note we're a cover band playing mostly weddings, casinos, corporate gigs.
Over the past 18 months, the band has discovered somethings about him. For example, he doesn't like playing weddings or the casinos. He complains the casino gigs are too boring for him. (BTW, the rest of us love the casinos, because of pay, benefits, etc). Same with the weddings. Okay fine. However, we discovered what a really negative guy he is. I thought of myself as sometimes negative until I met this guy. He makes me look like Mr. Happy!

Lately, he has taken it upon himself to point out mistakes the rest of us may make on a particular song. No problem for the three of us, we usually know right away when we hit clunkers and are pretty upfront admitting it. The three of us will take his criticism especially when he's right and modify and fix it.
BUT, Lord help us if we call him out on his mistakes. He prefers to have people hear and watch us as a concert. You know, simply come for the experience of the music. If you ever have played a wedding or casino, you know the band is not the main focus of the guests. Many times we're musical wallpaper. Drummer hates that. So now he adds all this inappropriate fills and additional beats into well established songs. Sometimes to the point I lose the beat with him. When called on it, he claims "that's just how it is on the record". Uh...NO! He will make some of our best rehearsed songs sound terrible with all this overplaying.
Last week at the casino, we played a song WAAAY too fast. afterwards I mentioned that but I also said it was the guitard's fault since he started the song. The drummer goes off and states with no uncertainty, that was the perfect tempo for the song. I disagree with him. He gets pissy and says that's just how it is on the record.
It's been building for awhile with this guy and I had enough, so I whip out my iPod and play the song for him. he says, "O what? you're going to prove me wrong?" I say, "yeah".
So he hears it, proof in the pudding our tempp was too fast. But instead of admitting his mistake, says, "Well, I like it faster anyway".
This is how he is with any constructive criticism. Frankly, he can't take it but has no probloem hadning it out. It's discouraging seeing it in him.

Thanks for letting me rant.

[guitarded]

Originally Posted by mward69

WE were planning on keeping the old guitar player and approached him as a band to tell him about getting the new guy in, and basically sending him to the bull pen. Taking him off MOST {not all} solo's and completely off the mic. He was cool...

Holy crap, next time grow some balls and just fire the offending player. By beating around the bush and playing games you gave the guy a license to wreck your night. Who the hell wants to be demoted at a gig? You all exercised bad judgement regarding the situation.

[invader3k]

Originally Posted by Medford Bassman

In some ways, it reminds me of our drummer. We picked up our current drummer about 18 months ago after letting go of our last guy. Everything started off great...
This is how he is with any constructive criticism. Frankly, he can't take it but has no probloem hadning it out. It's discouraging seeing it in him.

It sounds like you guys have some great gigs, and he doesn't appreciate the situation he's in. Time to find someone who will appreciate it, I'd think.

[dan stanton]

Yeah, not a good way to handle the situation. You don't need to be mean, but you have to be firm. Playing live is no different than any other work. And, the bandleader's ego is what got in the way, not the "old" guitarists'. It's ok to play with guys that need a second car to haul their ego, onstage, you gotta hang with the big dogs. I mean performing.

[jgsbass]

In 1968 I was in a band ( still a guitard) that had an older person ( he was college aged) playing guitar. We did a lot of Moby Grape among other artists. Our first gig, he decides to re-enact the famous episode where a member of Moby Grape walked out into Central Park in NYC between shows, and disappeared for a few years. So we did our 1st set and we're ready to do the second set and he's gone. Nowhere to be found. Continued as a trio and then looked for an organ to fill out the band for future gigs.

[Medford Bassman]

Originally Posted by invader3k

It sounds like you guys have some great gigs, and he doesn't appreciate the situation he's in. Time to find someone who will appreciate it, I'd think.

I think we're thinking the same thing. We have to use a fill-in drummer for a March casino gig because regualr guy can't make it. We rehearsed wit the fill-in last week. One of the guitards said guy was fantastic and wouldn't mind replacing the other guy.
I think it's fair we talk to our current drummer and discuss before just giving the boot.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by jgsbass

In 1968 I was in a band ( still a guitard) that had an older person ( he was college aged) playing guitar. We did a lot of Moby Grape among other artists. Our first gig, he decides to re-enact the famous episode where a member of Moby Grape walked out into Central Park in NYC between shows, and disappeared for a few years. So we did our 1st set and we're ready to do the second set and he's gone. Nowhere to be found. Continued as a trio and then looked for an organ to fill out the band for future gigs.

Happened to Fleetwood Mac as well: Jeremy Spencer.

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by Thor

Happened to Fleetwood Mac as well: Jeremy Spencer.

joined a cult irrc

[CapnSev]

I second all the responses that you shouldn't have replaced him at a gig. I think you guys had it coming. I would have just left you with your new guitarist and walked out.

[TheVoiceless]

You created your own situation. You should have just let him go. Or worked it out during practice with him. You just gave him a blow to the ego. Most musicians won't take that well. Trust me I know from experience. Next time just say its not working out. Because basically you are stringing him along and shoving his lack of abilities in his face.

Now I would not have ruined anything on purpose which is silly on his part. Though you should really have just gave him the chance to work his parts out and then replaced him.

Thats just how I feel.

[NickInMesa]

Hey, man, before the usual crowd shows up and says it to you: YOU are the source of all the drama, ok?



Seriously: yes, plenty of guitarists have huge egos because they think they run the band, even if they don't, or that they are the main musician, and don't handle being threatened, even if they are not.

Issues get worse when the guy is a druggie and or an alcoholic with bipolar tendencies (most are).

Sad to say but I left my last band because of the guitarist's attitude. We hired a second guitarist and he felt even more threatened by him, while we had decided to hire the guitarist following his advice as I spent one hour on the phone with his drunk self trying to reassure him he was a good guitarist.

I think some people just can't change. Alcoholics and druggies will not change until they hit bottom, and even, some stay there.

In your case I would not have transitioned like this. Of course he was going to go ballistic. The raging solos at 11 were obviously a result to the threat, a way to reassure himself that he was good (whether he is or not) and an extended middle finger to everyone.

What if they had brought in a 6-string bass prodigy and in the middle of the last set they told you: just play root 8 while he plays all the tasty bass parts?

You'd have felt/reacted somewhat similarly.