I couldn't hear myself. What should I do?

[Wyatt]

Last night, we played a gig at a RV park at a local resort. Mostly an older crowd as it is mostly made up of retirees. Only the second gig I have played with these guys and it went very well. My only complaint is that I couldn't hear myself. We didn't have me going thru the PA because I had more than enough power available to fill up the venue. I was standing no more than 5 or 6 feet in front of my rig the whole time.
We were playing in an open sided, closed ended pavilion with open rafters. I have a Trace Elliot AH350SMX head with a 2x10 and a 1x15 cab stacked vertically. We had someone at the back of the room listening and telling us what sound adjustments to make. They keep telling me I'm too loud. When we finally get the FOH sound blending nicely, I look at my amp and the main volume is just a little below 1 and I couldn't hear myself near as well as I would have liked. But the sound was great at the back of the room
We are a 6 piece with lead, rhythm, drums, mandolin, lap steel, and bass. Kick drum and everyone else but me is miked.
What should I do?

[Wyatt]

OOPS! I put this in the wrong place. Could a mod help me and put this topic where it belongs?

[Basshoofd]

I always use a monitor for myself. That way I can turn it up as loud as I want to, and turn up the mids so I can clearly hear what I'm playing. Even though you're standing in front of your amp, you're basically playing without a proper monitor (=can't hear yourself properly)

[addylewis]

Its a pain when you can't hear yourself...I remember once I borrowed someones rig and the speaker output gave in during our first song, no monitors so couldn't hear crap but we got through it.

Your amp in a situation without monitors should ALWAYS be turned up enough to at least hear youself a bit IMO...

[Wyatt]

I could hear myself some but not enough. My lows were ok, but the mids were nonexistent to me. I was told they sounded fine at the back of the venue. Gonna mess with the EQ a little more and see if I can get them a little better. What stumped me is that I have my 10's on top of the 15 and they are about waist to chest high. I should have been able to hear them better. We play there again on Labor Day, so I have plenty of time to figure something out.

[Wyatt]

Originally Posted by Basshoofd

I always use a monitor for myself. That way I can turn it up as loud as I want to, and turn up the mids so I can clearly hear what I'm playing. Even though you're standing in front of your amp, you're basically playing without a proper monitor (=can't hear yourself properly)

Do you use a powered monitor and a line out?

[KrisH]

How well do you trust the abilities of your person "at the back of the room"?

[Exploiter8]

Maybe next time tap into the FOH? How about EQ-ing the lows so they don't carry to the back, then you have to turn up your volume? Increase the high end? Can you angle the 210 cab up abit? These are probably things you've already tried, but I'm just throwing things out there. I never cared for playing outdoors, sound-wise. Retirees, eh? Sounds like my kind of set list!

Good-luck on Labor Day!

X8

[varunkapahi]

i cant really hear myself most of the times as i'd like to. mostly there is'nt enough time to sound check and fix it, i dont want make my tone too thin to hear myself because the band sound might suffer. what i like is taking a DI to the board and sending the parallel out to the amp so i can eq it however i like without effecting the mix

[Phalex]

Originally Posted by varunkapahi

what i like is taking a DI to the board and sending the parallel out to the amp so i can eq it however i like without effecting the mix

This

[Wyatt]

Originally Posted by KrisH

How well do you trust the abilities of your person "at the back of the room"?

I have the utmost trust in her. She is my wife and loves bass.

Originally Posted by Exploiter8

Maybe next time tap into the FOH? How about EQ-ing the lows so they don't carry to the back, then you have to turn up your volume? Increase the high end? Can you angle the 210 cab up abit? These are probably things you've already tried, but I'm just throwing things out there. I never cared for playing outdoors, sound-wise. Retirees, eh? Sounds like my kind of set list!

Good-luck on Labor Day!

X8

I do need to take out some lows. That 15 projects like none other I have heard. Seems like the farther you get from it the more you feel it. We play good ol foot stompin, knee slappin, country, and southern rock. I like the lows for that but maybe I do have to much. I haven't messed with the EQ too much. I plan on changing that tho.

Originally Posted by varunkapahi

i cant really hear myself most of the times as i'd like to. mostly there is'nt enough time to sound check and fix it, i dont want make my tone too thin to hear myself because the band sound might suffer. what i like is taking a DI to the board and sending the parallel out to the amp so i can eq it however i like without effecting the mix

I will look into this option also.

Thanks guys.

[varunkapahi]

Originally Posted by Phalex

This

Originally Posted by Wyatt

I will look into this option also.

Thanks guys.

however i do run a sansamp vt bass to give me amp and cab sim which adds a lot of awesome color to what would be dry pa bass tone otherwsise

[fourstringburn]

Your problem was the person at the back of the room checking your sound. Bass sounds tend to have a rear projecting reflex sound that is louder than other instruments. This bass sound is usually boomy and blurry and shouldn't be used for sound adjustment.

Have you ever lived in an apartment and had a neighbor blasting his stereo? usually what you hear thru the walls most is the bass reflex and it usually doesn't sound very distinct. Same thing here.

So why would you have a guy making sound adjustments from the rear? What counts is what the audience hears up front.

Unless your playing a real small venue or in someone's living room, I would run the bass thru the P.A. via D.I. or mike or both,then use your amp for a stage monitor. If you can't hear yourself with all those other instruments onstage, then those guys should turn down some and rely on stage monitors for themselves while a good sound man mixes what the audience should hear. With a good P.A. there is no reason to fill the venue up with the amps off the stage, plus you most likely can't compete very well if everybody is miked up and your not.

However, If the gig is small enough, I wouldn't mike anybody up, just vocal mikes should do.

[kcole4001]

Years ago I used to have a 2X15 cab that projected like crazy, so stage volume was great, but 20 feet out from the front it was just blasting your head off.

What we do now is send a DI from the amp, everything is miked, and side wash the amps for a balanced stage sound which doesn't affect the FOH sound as much.
We keep stage volume to a comfortable level, and add anything we need to the monitors when necessary.

It's definitely best if everyone can hear everything.

[Rick Auricchio]

If she was at the back of the room at the same distance from the back wall as your amp is from the front wall, she will hear standing waves and the bass will be very loud at that spot.

Did she walk the room to listen in several locations?

Did you put your cab on a stand/chair to get it closer to your ears?

[Wyatt]

We still have several things to work out. We really need a stage snake to get the sound board off stage so the adjustments can be made at the proper place. That is in the works for the next show.

We did a sound check without the drummer before the show, so everyone's volume wasn't really that loud, especially on stage. They all have small amps and keep their level respectable. I was hearing the rhythm guitar more thru the monitors than from his amp which was right beside me. One problem I have is that my rig barely comes up to my chest. Can't help it that I'm 6'6". My rig weighs close to 300 lbs so I don't want to put it in a chair or carry something else to make it taller.

Our lap steel player is a former bass player who toured extensively iin the early 90's. He has also run sound for numerous bands thru the years and takes care of setting things up for us before the show. He knows his stuff and we have a lot of faith in him. I'm going to sit down with him at practice tonight see if he can help me dial my EQ in better where I don't have this problem.

[Floyd Eye]

Boost the mids and damn the torpedos. lol

[Exploiter8]

I'm just throwing stuff out there, but...Can your 210 cab handle the wattage on it's own? Maybe disconnect the 115 cab as a last resort? Obviously not ideal, just another option during "crunch-time."

Cool stage set-up!

X8

[steveksux]

Its your hat. Bass freqs create longer wavelengths, so the narrow brim is reflecting everyone else's sound to your ears and the bass freqs are ignored... You need a big cowboy hat like the other guys...

I was hearing the rhythm guitar more thru the monitors than from his amp which was right beside me.

That's one problem, the guitarists have amps on stage to hear themselves, the monitors if any should be so you can hear them, not so they can overpower your stage volume... They don't have volume issues from your post, so no reason for the soundman to create problems by having them too loud in the monitors...

One problem I have is that my rig barely comes up to my chest. Can't help it that I'm 6'6". My rig weighs close to 300 lbs so I don't want to put it in a chair or carry something else to make it taller.

I'd stack the 2x10 vertically. You get extra height so its closer to ear level, and better tone. Move out a little farther if you have to so your ear is in the "cone" of sound the speakers dispersion pattern put out...

If the 15 is projecting out too much, and such a "long throw" that you don't get much on stage from it, maybe disconnect it, and go through the PA. PA supplies FOH sound, you get more mids on stage to hear it better cause the 2x10 is off the floor, less low end muddying up the sound.

Can't tell if that floor is carpet or cement/linoleum. Hard floors can make for boomy bass sounds, so it sounds loud out in the audience, but no mids, no volume on stage. Disconnecting the 15 may help that, or try to eq the boom out on the amp

Worth a try.
Randy

[deaf pea]

Originally Posted by Wyatt

...Can't help it that I'm 6'6"...

Yeah, but those 10's are hitting you at about waist level . . . you REALLY need to raise your cabs up a bit . . . I'm thinking that a pair of milk crates might do the trick . . . good luck . . . . . .

+1 to Randy's idea of disconnecting the 15" cab . . .