I Don't Remember Getting Gigs Being This Tough

[AJ Brown]

I haven't gigged in awhile, and my new band is finally ready to get out there. We've been doing the right things the past couple of months, as far as we can tell... CD Demo/Press Kit, MySpace, Website, pounding clubs, bars, and whoever will listen, including offering to gig for $150 flat. Freaking frustrating. Oh, and why do these people ask for a CD/press kit and then insist (without listening first) that you need to play at their open mic night?

Our demo was quickly put together in two days. Music recorded live, vocals added later. I didn't really think it was that bad. Few small screwups here and there, but for the most part highly listenable (is that a word?). Damn.

http://www.cocktailjoe.com
http://www.myspace.com/cocktailjoe

[Jimmy Bones]

You have it easy man. There are like ZERO paying gigs to be found out here, demo and press kit or not.

[AJ Brown]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Bones

You have it easy man. There are like ZERO paying gigs to be found out here, demo and press kit or not.

I'm pretty sure living where you are is an acceptable compromise. I'm jealous.

[Jimmy Bones]

Don't be. This place is a cesspool.

The music scene is a little stagnant, though all the originals bands show one another a lot of support. The cover bands/hawaiian/easy listening/reggae/jawaiian bands are a bunch of cocksure jackasses though. (Generalization, not all-inclusive.)

[AJ Brown]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Bones

Don't be. This place is a cesspool.

The music scene is a little stagnant, though all the originals bands show one another a lot of support. The cover bands/hawaiian/easy listening/reggae/jawaiian bands are a bunch of cocksure jackasses though. (Generalization, not all-inclusive.)

Consider my bubble burst. Sounds like you should move?

[Hutch1]

Tell me about it. The last regular act I was in was an acoustic duo, and I spent much more time marketing than I did practicing/playing. I created press kits, mailed them or drove to venues to drop them off, did TONS of follow up, and decided that I'd much rather join an agency and pay someone to do the marketing.

What REALLY angered me, though, is when I would mail or drop off a press kit, then I would send an email or call the person in charge, and they would not return my call or email. In my opinion, at that point they crossed the line from indifference to being outright rude. If they listened to the cd and thought we sounded like crap, fine. If they didn't want to book us, fine. But when they refused to return my calls it became frustrating.

I guess it's like a job interview. You strut your stuff, then you go home and never hear from them again one way or another, and no amount of follow up on your end matters one bit. In today's no-social-skills-technology-based world, it seems many people want to avoid talking to another human being as it makes them uncomfortable and might lead to confrontation.

In my experience, that is.

[AJ Brown]

Originally Posted by Hutch1

Tell me about it. The last regular act I was in was an acoustic duo, and I spent much more time marketing than I did practicing/playing. I created press kits, mailed them or drove to venues to drop them off, did TONS of follow up, and decided that I'd much rather join an agency and pay someone to do the marketing.

What REALLY angered me, though, is when I would mail or drop off a press kit, then I would send an email or call the person in charge, and they would not return my call or email. In my opinion, at that point they crossed the line from indifference to being outright rude. If they listened to the cd and thought we sounded like crap, fine. If they didn't want to book us, fine. But when they refused to return my calls it became frustrating.

I guess it's like a job interview. You strut your stuff, then you go home and never hear from them again one way or another, and no amount of follow up on your end matters one bit. In today's no-social-skills-technology-based world, it seems many people want to avoid talking to another human being as it makes them uncomfortable and might lead to confrontation.

In my experience, that is.

Man, you just hit the nail on the head. This is EXACTLY what we're experiencing.

[Hutch1]

Oh, and I lived in Hawaii for a few years. I loved the weather and the ocean, but I saw a lot of things that took the romance out of it for sure.

[Hutch1]

Originally Posted by AJ Brown

Man, you just hit the nail on the head. This is EXACTLY what we're experiencing.

Sorry to hear of your travails, but it's somewhat comforting to hear that others are experiencing the same things.

[Jimmy Bones]

I'll be moving as soon as my wife gets transferred to her next duty station.

[Smallmouth_Bass]

Another band member does our booking and he gets the same thing. You really have to hound people and follow up several times, often just to get them to listen to your demo. And usually when they do agree that you can play, they want to make payment arrangements like "you make the door", "you sell tickets" or "you do it for exposure" type-of thing. There are a few places that pay decent and I have found that those venues have higher quality bands.

I can understand that live venues must get bombarded with all sorts of bands soliciting, but bar managers/bookers should still be courteous and honest. I'd much rather hear someone tell us that they didn't like music rather than give us the run-around. And most poor bands can be weeded out by just asking for a demo and a few references.

[Hutch1]

Originally Posted by Smallmouth_Bass

Another band member does our booking and he gets the same thing. You really have to hound people and follow up several times, often just to get them to listen to your demo. And usually when they do agree that you can play, they want to make payment arrangements like "you make the door", "you sell tickets" or "you do it for exposure" type-of thing. There are a few places that pay decent and I have found that those venues have higher quality bands.

I can understand that live venues must get bombarded with all sorts of bands soliciting, but bar managers/bookers should still be courteous and honest. I'd much rather hear someone tell us that they didn't like music rather than give us the run-around. And most poor bands can be weeded out by just asking for a demo and a few references.

Good points. The other thing I don't like (though I understand why it's done) is the ubiquitous "the band needs to pack the club with their friends."

First of all, what's wrong with the club that they'd have no customers unless we brought them in.

Second, Some of us are grown-ups with families, careers, etc. We can't simply post flyers at our college or tell everybody in our fraternity to show up.

"Let's see: John can't come because he can't get a babysitter. Pete won't be there because he's out of town on business. Tim will be attending his daughter's piano recital that night, and Larry works third shift. That's about it for my friends."

[Hutch1]

Originally Posted by Hutch1

Good points. The other thing I don't like (though I understand why it's done) is the ubiquitous "the band needs to pack the club with their friends."

First of all, what's wrong with the club that they'd have no customers unless we brought them in.

Second, Some of us are grown-ups with families, careers, etc. We can't simply post flyers at our college or tell everybody in our fraternity to show up.

"Let's see: John can't come because he can't get a babysitter. Pete won't be there because he's out of town on business. Tim will be attending his daughter's piano recital that night, and Larry works third shift. That's about it for my friends."

Oh, oh, oh, and if we had a sizeable fan base we might not even be considering playing this club in the first place.

[Smallmouth_Bass]

Originally Posted by Hutch1

Oh, oh, oh, and if we had a sizeable fan base we might not even be considering playing this club in the first place.

Good point. If you're a regular gigging band, do these places really think that your friends and family are going to come to every show? We'll always have a few people there, but we offer a service to entertain their clientele.

[Hutch1]

Even worse, I've seen COFFEE SHOPS where the musicians play only for tips and maybe a free cup of coffee, and the management still expects the musicians to pack the place with friends of the band. My limited experience with this arrangment saw the average gig yielding about $2 each for the band.

[madhouse]

After another ridiculous conversation with yet another club owner who told me his also ridiculous pay policy for the bands (some elaborate system where the band was offered a small percentage of the bar unless the bar-take was less than $1,000 in 4 hours in which case, the money would be deducted from the band's take or some such thing) The club owner thought this was more than fair. And he is just representative of the others we have encountered in the past few years.

I said to the owner, 'your job is to get the crowd there, our job is to keep them there'.
He didn't get it, we didn't play.

We have been lucky enough to find a few places where the very small 'fan base' we have can get to the club with little hassle but going outside our few city block radius means we need to rely on the 'fan base' of the club and I find very few club owners understand how to market themselves to build a fan base the way the bands have to.

Luck to y'all
Joanne

[Smallmouth_Bass]

I can understand if you're an originals band, maybe, you want to build a fan base. Or if you're in a theme band or tribute band. But if you're playing general crowd pleasers (classic rock) or standards (if jazz is your gig), the venue should be promoting themselves as having good quality bands on certain nights of the week.

I am always surprised to hear how some of these bars are managed. Maybe that's why the turnover is so high.

[J. Crawford]

Originally Posted by Hutch1

Even worse, I've seen COFFEE SHOPS where the musicians play only for tips and maybe a free cup of coffee, and the management still expects the musicians to pack the place with friends of the band. My limited experience with this arrangment saw the average gig yielding about $2 each for the band.

If your move to Ohio, expect this all the time at every gig.

[iplaybasstexas]

if you're getting paid $150 per gig, i would start being quiet....

most venues here refuse guarentees and only pay you by people you bring. As the CEO of a venue, i agree with this. it takes initiative for a band to get enough people there (building their fanbase big enough) to get what they want to get paid.


I actuallly had a show last night. $7 cover. 7 bands. the highest paid band was $39. two bands got paid $3.00.

consider yourself lucky if
a) you are getting gigs with guarentees
and B) guarentees of $150.


Sorry to be the downcast one, but its legit truth.

[bassplayer8953]

Somewhere along the line, the reason for a live band changed from: entertain the people who frequent the establishment...to...bring the audience. All this amounts to is lazy club owners & promoters who shove off THEIR JOB onto someone else. Many years ago, when I began going to clubs, the clubs were packed, good bands were booked several nights a week, everybody made good money, & life in that world was a positive thing. Then the chizzlers & carpetbaggers took over, shoving off their responsibilites onto everyone else. Bands have always made peanuts, relative to the time 3, 4, or 5 members spend at a gig...not to mention the prep time, travel time, etc...so the pockets are generally not there to promote, compared to what a club takes in. So the promotion suffers, & audiences decline. Add to that the lower tolerance DUI laws, anti-smoking ordinances, & the state of the economy in general (not to mention the variety of other things for people to entertain themselves with these days..."live DJ!"...makes me wanna vomit) and the whole live music scene has taken a huge hit.

Anyone trying to promote their selection of songs...covers, tribute, or original...has my respect, because the deck is truly stacked against us.