I just found out I'm not as good as I thought I was

capnsandwich · #1 07-13-2010, 12:21 AM

It's not really a humorous story but it is a story about a recording gig so I stuck this story in here. Please move if it's in the wrong spot.

I was in the studio a few weeks ago, recording for a project that has been going extremely slow due to financial reasons and schedule conflicts, and I almost forgot about it except that the guy who's in charge of the entire thing has become a good friend of mine.

So anyway, I had some mp3's of these songs, a lot of mp3's with about 10 different revisions for each song, on my hard drive but since I had kind of dismissed this as a non-gonna-happen project, I stuck them on the back burner for the time being and concentrated on my own band's recording project. Well, he calls me up, tells me he has studio time booked, and asks me if I can do this and this date. I tell him yes and start practicing those tunes again. We got together a grand total of 4 times in the last 2 months getting ready for this.

I thought I had them down. I thought I practiced them enough. Well, apparently I didn't. I went into the studio and laid down 4 tracks in 2 hours even though we had planned for 5. Then I went in a few weeks later and laid down the 5th track which took an entire 2 HOURS for ONE SONG!!! That kind of made me realize that maybe I wasn't to the level I thought I was.

Then I got en email with the attached files for me to listen to. There's no maybe about it. I'm definitely not where I thought I was. It took this experience to realize it but I'm finally humbled enough to realize I need something greater than myself to get where I want to be.

So, has anyone had a similar experience?

Daveomd · #2 07-13-2010, 12:33 AM

Yeah, a band I had been in reunited to record some original tunes we had never gotten around to doing the first time around, about 10 years after the fact. The material was semi-technical heavier stuff and I had been doing the blues/classic rock cover band thing in the time away. Even though it was all stuff I had written, it just was NOT happening. I like to think I'm always improving, and I think my feel is probably better now than it was back in the day, it just goes to show that your chops can get lazy if you aren't pushing it. Especially when it's captured on a pristine recording.

capnsandwich · #3 07-13-2010, 12:37 AM

Yep, the recording never lies.

FunkMetalBass · #4 07-13-2010, 01:06 AM

Truth be told, you probably weren't there before-hand either. When our band was about to start recording, I had the guitar, drums, and vocals record some scratch tracks at my place. I recorded my stuff over them to see where I was at. Sure enough, my basslines didn't fit, sounded sloppy, and generally needed to be re-written.

I've found that it had less to do with the poor skill, but more with the subtle intricacies that you don't notice until you record.

tearalong · #5 07-13-2010, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FunkMetalBass

I've found that it had less to do with the poor skill, but more with the subtle intricacies that you don't notice until you record.

It's amazing what you hear when the volume is a lot lower than on on stage.

ridgeback · #6 07-13-2010, 01:20 AM

welcome to your fist day of improvement...nothing like a good slap in the mouth to wake you up..honestly mate anybody doing what we do has to belive in there our own Ability and there comes a point where you think your good enough,finding out your not that good and accepting it is what takes you to the next level.there will be always someone better and thats ok..all i can say to you is fair play for having the balls to admit it not only to yourself but out in public.its not what you can do that makes you good its the acknowledgement that you not perfect and that you need to improve..arrogant people never have the skill to back up their mouth...sadly you can only really see when you get older!

tfernandez · #7 07-13-2010, 01:40 AM

don't be too bummed about it. it's good that you recognize you need to grow and have the drive and ambition to push for that next step. I look back at my old recordings and cringe at the idea that I thought I was good. I still get recording gitters too. Just gotta think of it was a very expensive test.

steveksux · #8 07-13-2010, 05:46 AM

When you're doing it, your attention is split, concentrating on what you want to play, how to play it, where's the cick track, etc. And the remainder is hearing what you're doing. The bass track in your head is what you are hearing, not the bass track coming out of your fingers. You may notice some of the mistakes, but usually don't hear all the intricacies that you thought you nailed, but in reality were off.

When you're listening to the recording, you're focused on that 100%, and hear all the flaws. Also you're listening more to the whole band, instead of your part, so more likely to notice where it doesn't fit.

Its a great tool for humiliating yourself...

But it's necessary to hear the truth to fix the truth..

Vocals are usually REALLY embarrassing. Usually the instruments are too loud live, can't hear the monitors as good as you think you do. The result? Lou Ferigno singing. That's more of an issue when you record the band live, hopefully in the studio you can at least hear yourself singing..

When you hear it, you get angry.... We wouldn't like you when you're angry...

Randy

Jonyak · #9 07-13-2010, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FunkMetalBass

Truth be told, you probably weren't there before-hand either. When our band was about to start recording, I had the guitar, drums, and vocals record some scratch tracks at my place. I recorded my stuff over them to see where I was at. Sure enough, my basslines didn't fit, sounded sloppy, and generally needed to be re-written.

I've found that it had less to do with the poor skill, but more with the subtle intricacies that you don't notice until you record.

This.

Last time I went into the studio I ended up rewriting a few parts of my lines to better fit in with the sound.

caeman · #10 07-13-2010, 06:15 AM

Nah, Cap, you are good, but in this instance, the execution wasn't up to par. I heard you play at the Cinci Get-together and you have some skill. Even the good guys have a bad day here and there.

capnsandwich · #11 07-13-2010, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caeman

Nah, Cap, you are good, but in this instance, the execution wasn't up to par. I heard you play at the Cinci Get-together and you have some skill. Even the good guys have a bad day here and there.

Thanks for that man. I guess I just got a wake up call last week. Bad day, maybe. I totally blew it in the studio. However, I talked to my buddy who's in charge of the whole shindig and he's still 100% confident in me. Why? I don't know, but he wants me on the next 7 songs as well. Pray for me........

BigOldHarry · #12 07-13-2010, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capnsandwich

Yep, the recording never lies.

Yupper. I actually hate recording - its like playing music but with none of the joy... As if you are being punished for your art. I know it's part of the gig, but I'll take a bar gig *any day* over a recording date.

EricF · #13 07-13-2010, 04:16 PM

Nothing is harsher than the magnifying glass of a recording - escpecially when you mute the rest of the instruments.

phillipkregg · #14 07-13-2010, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigOldHarry

Yupper. I actually hate recording - its like playing music but with none of the joy... As if you are being punished for your art. I know it's part of the gig, but I'll take a bar gig *any day* over a recording date.

It's funny - what sounds great live, sometimes doesn't translate well at all on recordings.

I've often found that something that sounded "too simple" live fits perfectly in a recording.

One of my favorite live acts is Eric Essix with Sean Michael Ray on bass. Those guys rip it up live - just incredible playing. However, the albums just don't seem to capture that experience as well because they are much more refined and the playing is simpler. I don't know if they do it on purpose or if it just comes out that way.

On the other hand, Robert Randolph and the Family Band's music seems to have that same energy whether live or in the studio.

Go figure....

caeman · #15 07-13-2010, 04:53 PM

Robert Randolph is an absolute monster on the pedal steel! Their live recordings are great.

aledeville · #16 07-13-2010, 05:17 PM

I was so afraid of this scenario that it forced me to buy a looping pedal (boss rc-2). The first few minutes I was frustrated like hell because this little stompbox gives such a hard-line feedback of what you just played.

It helped me a lot for practise.

nobodysfool · #17 07-13-2010, 05:28 PM

I did not listen to the samples you posted, but as a bassist with over 40 years of experience, and now wrestling with RA in my hands, I have come to understand exactly what "less is more" means. I also have learned that when a band is trying to refine their parts, it's not always a welcome suggestion to them to simplify their parts. Especially if it is something funky, the tendency is for everyone to try and supply the funk all by themselves. Learning how to simplify, and play the "right" notes, and eliminate the unnecessary ones is enough to keep a bassist (or a guitarist or drummer) busy for the rest of his/her life.

Case in point: Listen to nearly anything by the Beatles. What you'll hear is four musicians, each with a very specific part to play, and listen to how the parts fit together. Some of their best songs are in reality very simple in construction, and the appeal is in the mix. None of them overplayed.

I recorded with a band I used to play in back in the 90's. We were mostly a cover band, but we did our own arrangements. We had decided to record "Knock On Wood", and I asked to produce the track, as I had a specific idea for what might sound good. I wanted to strip it down to a very "James Brown" type arrangement, with horn stabs, very choppy, with lots of space in the instrumental parts, no overplaying or trying to "fill the holes". I wanted open spaces in the music, to make the parts stand out more. The idea was that the lead vocal would more or less tie the whole thing together. The keyboard player and drummer had a hard time wrapping their minds around what I was trying to accomplish, and we had to do multiple takes, each time with me telling them "you're playing too much! Leave the holes there! Don't try to fill them!" We finally got a take I was satisfied with, but they obviously weren't. I asked our lead singer to have a go at the lead vocal as an overdub, and the drummer, keyboard player and I sat in the control room and listened as she laid down her part. As the take progressed, first the drummer, and finally the keyboardist, slowly started to smile, and nod their heads. They finally heard it! When she finished the take, she came back in to the control room for the playback, at which point she looked at me, and said, "I was so pissed at you for what you were doing, but now that I hear this, I get it. It doesn't need another thing!" The song was finished with the most sparse arrangement I've ever heard for that song. She even did the James Brown "HEY!" at the end....Perfect!

caeman · #18 07-13-2010, 05:33 PM

Cap, try think about this situation like this for a moment: You had the maturity to acknowledge that it wasn't good enough, and then address it. No ego, except maybe only a moment of whining and complaining.

caeman · #19 07-13-2010, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricF

Nothing is harsher than the magnifying glass of a recording - escpecially when you mute the rest of the instruments.

This is just so wrong to do. Some instruments just don't sound good solo, they are meant to be heard with other instruments, combining with their sound, supporting it, making each other sweet sounding to the ears and heart.

This is why I prefer live stage recording. It maybe harder to mic and control, but it is more honest and usually more natural sounding. We humans don't like perfection. We expect something to be off.

phillipkregg · #20 07-13-2010, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caeman

Cap, try think about this situation like this for a moment: You had the maturity to acknowledge that it wasn't good enough, and then address it. No ego, except maybe only a moment of whining and complaining.

+100 VERY TRUE!

I know cats who will listen to a crappy take they just did, and not think anything of it.

If you can hear what it is that you are doing wrong, and fix it, that means everything! That puts you way above most of the pack.

Thomas Edison said that he failed thousands of times to make a working light bulb, but with every failure he learned something new. Eventually he was successful.