Keyboard players that play bass

rusty66 · #1 08-22-2007, 09:33 AM

Is it only me or does anyone have problems with keyboard players playing bass notes whilst you are laying down the groove?

Just did 2 gigs for a high profile artist here in Aussie & the keyboard player was using the "ole left hand" to play different bass lines to what I was sight reading & playing. It sounded like total crap..

I offered (nicely) to break his fingers on his left hand, but that didnt make any difference

He wasnt interested in working anything out with me.

Anyhooooo, ive vented now............ aahhh thats better.

Cheers,
Rusty

JKT · #2 08-22-2007, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rusty66

Is it only me or does anyone have problems with keyboard players playing bass notes whilst you are laying down the groove?

Just did 2 gigs for a high profile artist here in Aussie & the keyboard player was using the "ole left hand" to play different bass lines to what I was sight reading & playing. It sounded like total crap..

I offered (nicely) to break his fingers on his left hand, but that didnt make any difference

He wasnt interested in working anything out with me.

Anyhooooo, ive vented now............ aahhh thats better.

Cheers,
Rusty

I feel your pain my brother. I absolutely hate this. And you're right, unless it is carefully orchestrated, it always sounds like total crap. And IMO it shows a complete lack of respect for the bassist and professionalism by the keyboard player.

Sadly my brother in-law who is a fine classically trained jazz pianist has been guilty of this in the past. Until I showed him the error of his ways.

JKT

txbasschik · #3 08-22-2007, 09:59 AM

Grrrr...I HATE IT when keyboard players do that! It shows a clear lack of respect for the bassist. I once had a keyboard chick tell me that I needed to just stick to the root, and she would do the rest. I retorted that bass is my job, and she should find something else to do with her left hand.

She was good buddies with my band's leader, who took her side. I basically told the leader that she could have that keyboard player, or she could have me stay in the band, but not both, and that if we were to hire a keyboard player, it should be one that knew how to play with a bassist.

My current band is talking about bringing a keyboard, and I told them, bluntly, that I have two criteria for keys in a band. 1) They add to the overall depth and sound of the band, and only showboat when they're supposed to, and 2) they do not get in the way of my bass lines. Period.

Sorry, but if a keyboardist wants to do my job, then I can go find another band, and will do so.

Yes, I'm inflexible. BTDT, got the t-shirt, the hat, and the bumpersticker. Don't want to go there again.

Cherie

bassman1185 · #4 08-22-2007, 10:14 AM

I used to have that problem when I was in high school, playing with my church youth band. My good friend Dustin played piano, and was an excellent pianist, but there were a few times when I had to tell him to lay off the low notes, because it just got to be too jumbled sounding.

need4mospd · #5 08-22-2007, 10:27 AM

I thought the title was refering to me, a keyboard player, now playing bass.

Funny thing is, my band has two bass players that double on keys, and there are two songs where I'm playing the bass line on fhe keys while both the basses hang unplayed.

The other bass/keys player tends to add more bass content than he should, but usually he's just doing the root note in the chord so it's never really been a problem. Of course with an 1800 watt poweramp, people playing over me is not something I have to think about often.

DaveDeVille · #6 08-22-2007, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rusty66

I offered (nicely) to break his fingers on his left hand, but that didnt make any difference

He wasnt interested in working anything out with me.

i feel your pain , bro .

i just quit my classic rock band because of the same situation .
this guy would just grin at me while he mudded up the bass line i was trying to lay down .

BTW , i also offered to break his hand , but he wasn't interested ...

ko stradivarius · #7 08-22-2007, 10:41 AM

Uhhhgg!! I had that problem a long time ago. Luckily, the band didnt last long. The worst part is he refused to admit it sounded like crap.

txbasschik · #8 08-22-2007, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KO STRADIVARIUS

Uhhhgg!! I had that problem a long time ago. Luckily, the band didnt last long. The worst part is he refused to admit it sounded like crap.

I've found that keyboard players with this attitude think the bassist is the one messing things up, if they notice at all. Its just arrogance, plain and simple. I'm not indicting all keyboard players, of course...just those who think they can and should "do it all".

Cherie

JKT · #9 08-22-2007, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txbasschik

I once had a keyboard chick tell me that I needed to just stick to the root, and she would do the rest. She was good buddies with my band's leader, who took her side.

This has to be one of the most ignorant things I have ever heard. Not sure who is more ignorant, the keyboard player or the band leader.

JKT

txbasschik · #10 08-22-2007, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JKT

This has to be one of the most ignorant things I have ever heard. Not sure who is more ignorant, the keyboard player or the band leader.

JKT

Oh, it was just SO stupid, and was one of the things that led to that band's breakup. The keyboard player had just gotten out of grad school, where her focus was music and education. She hadn't been playing with a band, and playing well by yourself and being able to teach others does not make you a good candidate for work in a band. I guess her degree and all that went to her head. The leader wanted her friend to join the band, badly. Very badly. The keyboardist was *good*, no doubt about it, but she was one of these, "I can do it all!" people, and that was that. We could have tried out other keyboardists, but the leader wanted *that one*, or none at all. (Frankly, we were already a six piece...too many guitars on the stage as it was. Didn't *need* keys.) The leader held this incident against me for a long time, and it was one of several burrs under my saddle with that band.

Cherie

rappa29 · #11 08-22-2007, 11:16 AM

I thought the title was refering to me, a keyboard player, now playing bass.

That's what I thought, because that's what I am too! lol.

Played keys for 20 years, now playing bass.

However, I was never one of those LH bass types. In every band I've ever played keys in, the bass player kicked arse!!! So I always made it a point to stay out of their way because I enjoyed listening to them!

Silas Martinez · #12 08-22-2007, 11:18 AM

I'm fortunate. The band I'm working with will be auditioning keys, but I'm the final decision maker, and I'll be the one to write the ad, and I know it will say something like 'looking for keys. left hand amputees welcome' - or perhaps 'no left hand bassists'.

I'm the bass player. The key's role, for us, is to add harmonic density, occasional melodic lines and fills, and perhaps the odd solo. A key player who thinks he is a bassist will find his audition over before he knows it.

azbazz · #13 08-22-2007, 11:26 AM

I play with a very talented keyboard player, in a keyboard led band, who is the most talented musician in the band, and is a one man band when he does his own thing outside the band.....it is very frustrating !! it forces me to do things on the bass he can't do on the keyboard, like slides, etc....I play in another band where the keyboard player stays away from the bass lines....I want to play in a guitar led band!

flakeh · #14 08-22-2007, 12:29 PM

The keyboardist is like that in my school jazz band. Her and I get in these huge arguments over who's job it is too play the bassline.

" They keyboardist ALWAYS plays the lead bassline, The bassist just plays root!"

People these days

willdoss · #15 08-22-2007, 12:57 PM

Hi Folks

I have played keys for over thirty years and have recently started playing bass. The second thing I learned when playing with a rock band was to find something else to do with my left hand. This was never a problem for me because it freed me up to play B3 with one hand and piano with the other, or synth/piano or whatever combo I needed.

I for one was glad to have someone playing the low end. Besides, there is no way, even with modern equipment that a keyboardist can accurately duplicate all of the nuances of electric bass.

I agree with an earlier post, if you are playing rock and roll, country or blues, you are definitely playing in a guitar-dominated field, which leads me to the first thing I learned playing in a rock band...

All songs, whether written in these keys or not, are to be played in the following keys...
G, E, A or D

There are no flat keys, they do not exist.

tycobb73 · #16 08-22-2007, 01:33 PM

Um, a lot of bands tune down a half step which would make all those keys flat.

derrico1 · #17 08-22-2007, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txbasschik

Its just arrogance, plain and simple. I'm not indicting all keyboard players, of course...just those who think they can and should "do it all".

Just patch in a high pass filter on the keys. If the keyboard player is -- except for a trespassing left hand -- *really* good, set it ~450 Hz. Otherwise, set it ~20 kHz.

willdoss · #18 08-22-2007, 03:15 PM

Yes Ty, that is one way that bands compensate for a singer who has limited range, some even tune down a whole step, simple enough for a bassist or guitarist, not so easy on a B3 or a Rhodes. Keyboard player ends up playing in a different key, makes it hard to communicate with other band members, but hey, if it floats your boat...

Key signatures don't make much difference to a keyboard player. As a bassist, if you covet the super-low end that a keyboardist has at his/her disposal, you want to hit that E Flat, D, D flat, you can always go with a five string.

Deacon_Blues · #19 08-22-2007, 03:16 PM

Any pro keyboardist know they should stay away from the bass register in a band setting. It simply sounds like crap. The reason why so many on lower levels do it is probably because that's how they play when they play alone and that's how they want it to sound. Seems like they think the bass is guilty for making things muddy.

I thought the thread title referred to keyboard players that play bass lines on the keyboard thus replacing the bass. When I was a guitarist and the bassist couldn't make it to the gig for some reason (happened quite often), the keyboardist (my brother, nowadays pro) played the basslines on his keyboard instead. It worked fine (his bass playing on keyboard was way better than the bassist's playing actually), but he hated to do it. It was not his job.

rusty66 · #20 08-22-2007, 05:22 PM

The guy who I was talking about is a very experienced and exceptional musician. Great player, but he gets a few red wines into him at the gig and just forgets I think! I play 5 string bass and he was even playing his bottom C on one song. It was then that I actually pulled his hand off the keys and he was "opps, sorry" etc. Its getting annoying. Makes me sound like Im the bad guy. anyhow, Ive got the artist to talk to him, next gig 2moro night, will let you know how it goes.

Cheers all,
Rusty