Mewh, JPJ is easy...it just comes naturally to me.

richtea · #1 11-08-2011, 06:11 AM

I am posting this here because I don’t know where to post it, Mods please feel free to move it.

I normally don’t get worked up about stuff like this, but for some reason this is working on my nerves.

Around six weeks ago I was asked to play bass for a short run Hendrix/zeppelin tribute show. The rest of the band were in place and all were good pros, they were just struggling to get a bassist. One of the lead players contacted me and asked me if I would do it as we had worked together before.

When I saw the venue, members ect. I could see that this was going to be a fairly serious project. Now I am NOT a pro, day job, two working bands.

My first thought was hell yes, then the reality kicked in. J.P.J. .. 5 weeks, with only 2 or three evenings a week and a couple of weekend days (I only see my teen age daughter at weekends NOTHING cuts into that time).

Out of respect for the other musicians, not wishing to mess them around, plus the amount of work required for ME to do JPJ justice, I decided that the responsible thing to do was to turn the job down.

Fast forward two weeks. I bump into the lead player and asked him if they sorted the bass spot, he said yes and a name. I know the player and his skills. My first thought was wow, a bit above his pay grade, not in a nasty way, just surprise really. I thought this mainly because i thought the job was a bit above my pay grade as well.

Fast forward another week. I bump into the bassist. After a brief chat I congratulate him on landing the job and ask him how he is getting on with all the JPJ stuff.

“Mewh JPJ is easy, it just comes naturally to me”

Is the reply................ I didn’t think that I heard properly, so asked again and got a similar reply. I was kind of side swiped and didn’t really have anything else to say, so I made my excuses and left.

Here is the thing. It’s really bugging me I feel dissed. I feel that improper respect is being payed to both JPJ’s work and to the other musicians that he is working with. I know I shouldn’t, but I do.

This guy is not a child, he’s in his late 40’s and has been around.

Sorry for the long post, just sharing, ranting, and getting it off my chest.

Fridge123 · #2 11-08-2011, 06:24 AM

Maybe what he is saying is true?

I mean, I'm a pretty average player at best, but I have a real affinity for Tower of Power, and find learning Rocco's lines very simple (in comparison to other, 'easier' basslines).

So perhaps he just has a love for JPJs lines, and so has had an easier time learning them?

baskruit · #3 11-08-2011, 06:36 AM

If possible, just go check out the show and see how he does. Maybe he is that good and did you do everyone a favor not taking the job or you'll see him struggle and you have the last laugh. Either way it's a win.

richtea · #4 11-08-2011, 06:40 AM

yeah, maybe, I could be so wrong, and he knocks it out of the park, I hope he does. But from what I understood, the project calls for an accurate reproduction of the original bass lines. I just can’t see lines like, the lemon song, celebration day and since I've been loving you, falling out of this guys back pocket. A simplified repetitive version maybe.

richtea · #5 11-08-2011, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baskruit

If possible, just go check out the show and see how he does. Maybe he is that good and did you do everyone a favor not taking the job or you'll see him struggle and you have the last laugh. Either way it's a win.

I will probably go any way, as I am friendly with a couple of the members, I hope he is that good, I dont want to laugh at any one.

NKUSigEp · #6 11-08-2011, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richtea

...Here is the thing. It’s really bugging me I feel dissed. I feel that improper respect is being payed to both JPJ’s work and to the other musicians that he is working with. I know I shouldn’t, but I do.

This guy is not a child, he’s in his late 40’s and has been around.

Sorry for the long post, just sharing, ranting, and getting it off my chest.

You should feel "dissed" by yourself. JPJ is human...a great musician but human nonetheless. You passed up a great opportunity, you lost. Most of the Zeppelin basslines aren't very hard at all; their genius lies in the arrangement. Instead of going with the attitude "I can't learn that because I couldn't do it justice", why not try something else like "Even if I can't do it justice, a mind stretched to new limits never returns to its previous shape" or "I WILL learn those songs because they're really cool and I'll probably run across them again at some point in life". Better luck next time I guess.

**bassistjoe93** · #7 11-08-2011, 06:52 AM

That's a big claim to make, that the lines are easy, not that its impossible, but JPJ is a really good bassist... I'd go check out the show and see. I've met people like that who made similar claims regarding Jamerson's lines, Jaco tunes, etc. One guy claimed to be better than buddy rich on drums... that was a tough one to let go of. I try and give them the benefit of the doubt and go on my way. That's life I guess, I hope the guy does well with it!

lfmn16 · #8 11-08-2011, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NKUSigEp

You should feel "dissed" by yourself. JPJ is human...a great musician but human nonetheless. You passed up a great opportunity, you lost. Most of the Zeppelin basslines aren't very hard at all; their genius lies in the arrangement. Instead of going with the attitude "I can't learn that because I couldn't do it justice", why not try something else like "Even if I can't do it justice, a mind stretched to new limits never returns to its previous shape" or "I WILL learn those songs because they're really cool and I'll probably run across them again at some point in life". Better luck next time I guess.

+1

I would have told them that I might not have time to learn everything note for note, but I'll do a good job. That may be what the other guy told him. A lot of bass lines are easy if you don't try to learn all the notes and capture all of the nuances.

richtea · #9 11-08-2011, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NKUSigEp

You should feel "dissed" by yourself. JPJ is human...a great musician but human nonetheless. You passed up a great opportunity, you lost. Most of the Zeppelin basslines aren't very hard at all; their genius lies in the arrangement. Instead of going with the attitude "I can't learn that because I couldn't do it justice", why not try something else like "Even if I can't do it justice, a mind stretched to new limits never returns to its previous shape" or "I WILL learn those songs because they're really cool and I'll probably run across them again at some point in life". Better luck next time I guess.

you are very right. Maybe thats what is really erking me deep down. As a direct result of this I have already started to work on filling in the "holes" in the more complicated lines the simpler stuff I have pretty waxed already. Just because.

richtea · #10 11-08-2011, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassistjoe93

. One guy claimed to be better than buddy rich on drums... that was a tough one to let go of. !

Owwch!

THand · #11 11-08-2011, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NKUSigEp

You should feel "dissed" by yourself. JPJ is human...a great musician but human nonetheless. You passed up a great opportunity, you lost. Most of the Zeppelin basslines aren't very hard at all; their genius lies in the arrangement. Instead of going with the attitude "I can't learn that because I couldn't do it justice", why not try something else like "Even if I can't do it justice, a mind stretched to new limits never returns to its previous shape" or "I WILL learn those songs because they're really cool and I'll probably run across them again at some point in life". Better luck next time I guess.

Agreed.

and OT: I'm stealing "a mind stretched to new limits never returns to its previous shape".

Toastfuzz · #12 11-08-2011, 07:08 AM

Yeah if I can play Good Times Bad Times after half a bottle of Jameson, any experienced musician can.

Haha kidding, but seriously when I was learning how to play bass, I studied and mastered a ton of terribly hard Zeppelin tunes. Put in the time and effort then, and it brought my chops up in general a ton. Fast forward 5 years, I'm not a great bassist by far, but I can jam on Zeppelin anyday.

PS. if you're playing on Zeppelin anyway, PLEASE dont skip Over the Tiles. One of the most fun tunes to play.

THand · #13 11-08-2011, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richtea

you are very right. Maybe thats what is really erking me deep down. As a direct result of this I have already started to work on filling in the "holes" in the more complicated lines the simpler stuff I have pretty waxed already. Just because.

Good. To me it sounds like you may have let your reverence for JPJ undermine your own abilities.

The Lurker · #14 11-08-2011, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fridge123

Maybe what he is saying is true?

I mean, I'm a pretty average player at best, but I have a real affinity for Tower of Power, and find learning Rocco's lines very simple (in comparison to other, 'easier' basslines).

So perhaps he just has a love for JPJs lines, and so has had an easier time learning them?

+1. Zeppelin songs came easily to me, too. I know some of them are pretty complex, but something about them just clicked for me and they stuck in my head right away. I wish every song was like that.

BassAlchemy · #15 11-08-2011, 08:02 AM

It all boils down to how much does a person want to learn the bits. To some learning JPJ lines could be a piece of cake.. To others it could take more time. In my experience people who gloat about their all mighty skills are not usually the best players. Usually the most humble and reserved people are the best musicians. If you are that good the music will speak for itself, no need to self-agrandize.

prd004 · #16 11-08-2011, 08:08 AM

In my time I've heard only a handful of bassists that could do JPJ some justice, real justice!
In the same time I've heard dozens if not hundreds who thought they were doing a great job, butcher his lines

HolmeBass · #17 11-08-2011, 08:19 AM

You do realize that JPJ himself doesn't recreate *any* of those basslines note-for-note, right? That's not what the Zep gig is about. Listen to the recent Royal Albert Hall performance (from a few yrs ago) and you'll see they just flat out rock- sloppy, swaggering, a let-the-chips-fall-where-they-may style, totally in your face. Ever since hearing that seeing a band carefully reproduce a recorded Zep track leaves me very cold. This other guy might have the right attitude after all.

NKUSigEp · #18 11-08-2011, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richtea

you are very right. Maybe thats what is really erking me deep down. As a direct result of this I have already started to work on filling in the "holes" in the more complicated lines the simpler stuff I have pretty waxed already. Just because.

It took me over a decade to learn "Black Dog"...not that I had spent all those years trying to play it but that was the period of time it took for me to first sit down and actively learn it until the time I went "OHHHHHH, that's how he does it!". It's not a hard line at all now, it was just the timing that threw me off for so long. Like I said, the genuis of the bassline lies in the arrangement.

mouthmw · #19 11-08-2011, 09:49 AM

I've been in a Led Zep tribute band for over 2 years now. The most fun playing Zep is when we jam and improvise, like they did live as well. But JPJ's lines definitely have a lot of nuances, and I still have to practice a few songs if I want to do an exact replica of what he played in studio, but most of the time, when it's possible, I improvise, but still try to keep the original feel.
I do love playing Bring It On Home as close to the original though! Almost not one single line is the same, and it's busy and yet soo tasty and fun. We're Gonna Groove is also a killer song!
There's a whole lot of small details in his lines, and it took me quite a while to pick up on all of them, so I can do them justice (although I did only start playing when I started learning for the band, so my ear had to train as well). I too feel, that JPJ deserves nothing less.

mellowinman · #20 11-08-2011, 10:23 AM

How many Zeppelin Tribute Bands play "The Lemon Song?"

I mean, there are a LOT of Zeppelin songs with dead easy bass lines, especially "Houses of the Holy," "Kashmir," "Trampled Underfoot," etc.

There's also quite a lot of Zeppelin songs that are about the same level as any rock songs. We do "Whole Lotta Love," "The Ocean," and sometimes "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You," and we used to do "Dazed and Confused."

None of these are particularly hard.

I always wanted to do "Ramble On," but I'd either have to sing it while doing the acoustic part, or sing it while playing that bass line, and the task just seems daunting.

Robert Plant never had to play no stinkin' bass...