Music Shop Tyranny

[CrownandAnchor]

Folks were talking a bit about this on the "Do you Inspire or Deter" thread (which is a great thought experiment in itself...not just for bass playing, one of my favorite quotes is "You can either shine a light or cast a shadow.")

Anyway, the way people at the big chain music stores treat customers is often downright disturbing. I'll provide a few anecdotes and then tell you how I feel about it overall...

1. Obviously shy, young kid is there with his dad looking for a new instrument. The sales person enthusiastically approaches, and the kid picks out an axe that catches his eye. The sales person grabs it, plugs the sucker in and plays some face-melting riff to "show him" how good of an axe it is. Sometimes this goes on for an uncomfortably long time, while you can tell the kid just wants to play it himself. He hands it off to a child whose ego has just been completely deflated, the joy and excitement of buying a new instrument just completely gutted out of him.

2. I need a 6" daisy chain patch cord, ask the salesperson where they keep him and without missing a beat he says "you putting a pedal board together?"

3. A female comes in looking for a new instrument, and the salesperson is very caring and friendly, basically to the point of patronizing/coddling, and directs her to the heart-shaped and pink guitars.

I don't want to paint a completely glum picture, because a small percentage of these people are actually decent and can help you out, but the three examples I gave exemplify the vast majority of the salespeople I come across in Sam Ash or GC. Here's why they act that way.

1. They care about music greatly, but for the wrong reasons, and they are bitter for it. We're talking about people who at some point in their life practiced their butt off to get good on their instrument, had their shot at success, and failed. Now they're relegated to working in a music shop...so to keep their dignity intact they need to trash on others to prove that not only do they know their stuff, but they're "above" or "too good" for such a crappy vocation, even though it is in the "music industry." You find the same phenomenon in sound engineers at small clubs.

2. Compounding this bitterness is the payment system at these stores. I have a friend who worked at GC for a short period of time. You get paid a very small hourly wage (less than the federal minimum) and then you have to make up the difference in commissions. Basically like being a waitress or a busboy.

***Now read this part because it's really f*cked up!***

You might think the salesperson is going to push the more expensive equipment so he can make more dough off the commission, but this is not always the case. Commission at GC is based on the MARK UP of the product. That is the difference in price between what GC pays for it, and what they sell it to you for. So what happens is you might have decent bass "A" for $400, and terribly inadequate bass "B" for $400. If GC buys bass "A" for $300, and Bass "B" for $100, guess which one the salesperson is going to push EVERY TIME?

You, the impressionable kid who just had his face melted off by the salesperson, are either in such a state of shame and/or awe, that now you're in the position to listen to whatever this guy tells you you should get. But he's not giving you the best advice...doesn't have your personal interests in mind. He's just making the suggestion that will line HIS pockets the most.

There's my rant, here's a connecting story:

In college I had a professor named Joe Ferry. He was a great session bass player, and now is a prolific producer. He did an album for Dr. John a while back and told this story:

Dr. John is a piano player by trade (and a great one at that), but for this particular tune he wanted to lay down a guitar solo himself. Well, the part left a bit to be desired, but it was the end of the night and everyone was cranky, so Joe said "Fine" and just let it go. After the fact, Joe brought in another guitar player, wiped Dr. John's solo and put the new, more polished one in.

Later on, when Dr. John gets the mixes back and hears the new guitar solo, he calls up Joe effing mad. His point was this: Music is sacred. What you do when you are playing music is taking heart, soul, and truth, and broadcasting it into the world in the best way you know how. This is not something to be taken lightly, and when someone co-opts it, mangles, it or destroys it, that is a major sin against God. I want you to think about this story the next time you see an employee of a music store treating someone the wrong way.

[sevenyearsdown]

yes, guitar center does suck balls.

[nsmar4211]

Had a bit of a prob. at guitar center......
Went in to look at recorders, and needed strap/stand/strings etc stuff. Spent a good 30 min talking to the audio guys, very helpful and actually recommended something they didn't have in stock and told me they'd order it for me or i could go online or whatever (hour drive to get there!), no pressure, all help. Spent a bit poking around bass area and acoustic area, salesmen nice (didn't ask if I needed help but didn't blow me off, I'm fine with that). Wander into the percussion room, see a jamblock that might come in handy (big purple one with grooves in the lip for extra effects! hrmmm) so I pick it up, spent maybe 2 minutes in there.
I was walking over to get a set of sticks and one of the guys pretty much pounced and said You Can check out here. I said thanks but I still have some more things to pick up. He's then like, just come back in here to pay when you're done. Now I'm puzzled, he was pretty demanding. I asked why? He tells me its because I'm buying something from his dept. I said, since when do I have to pay for that departments items only at that register? I have to ring all my stuff up separately? He then starts saying well no, but I spent 8 days setting everything up and people walk out and pay for thousands of dollars of equipment in other departments and I don't get the commission.

So now I'm annoyed. First off, he didn't help me, didn't say hello or anything. I walked in, looked at block, took it off shelf. Secondly, other times I'd been in that area and asked him a question I was either looked down upon or treated as if I didn't have a clue. Not to mention he talked to my chest instead of me and I'm not very tall. So it's not like he'd been Mr. Helpful. At this point I almost put the block back down, it wasn't something I needed...but I decided I'd rather go talk to the manager.

The rest of the employees were great, one guy spent several minutes trying to hunt down a set of strings for me that the computer said they had even after I said it was no big deal. I did talk to the manager, and made the point that out of the $150 I spent, that guy hadn't helped me with anything. If I'm going to give the commission to anyone, it would be the people who *have* helped me. If this guy did that to me, how many other people has he done it to? How much business have they lost? I actually usually don't even go into that section if I see him in there!

Part of me felt bad for getting the guy in trouble, but the other part of me had had enough of getting pushed around. Some people just need to be taught patronizing a customer will only get you in trouble . Espically a female one who is smarter than she lets on

[neomoose]

I've actually had pretty good luck at the GC by my house. I guess it must just vary from store to store. The guys at my store aren't bitter washed up musicians, but gigging musicians who only work there for the employee discounts.

Isaiah

[calebbarton]

guitar center dosnt do "deals" anymore in oregon apparently. i went in there one day to look at something and i saw a fender jag on sale for lets say 500 cause i cant remember.

now prior to this date i could have walked in and said hey "hey i have 460 and i want a strap, can we do that?" and i could have walked out with a guitar and a strap.

so i find out this guitar is scratched in some places and its been marked down 20 bucks or whatever, so i ask if they will drop the price another 20 and they tell me that they dont do deals anymore. just sales, where for 2 days a year they drop 5 bucks off the sticker price and call it a sale. well thats effing great but whats the deal with the deals?

[D.Don]

I was in one of the sucker stores in Paris the other day to get some cables and such and went into a store who's website I'd visited ahead to find out what I wanted. Ordered the cables from the clerk, and he tells me the price, that apparently is 4 euro more than on their site, so I comment this, and he tells me that they have cheaper prices online coz they don't want peeps to feel that it's too expensive with the shipping cost on top etc. So I ask him if he is really serious about this, and he is just nodding and asks me if I want the cables.

As I was gonna have a stand too, that apparently costed 5 euros more in the store than online, my brain pretty much at once found out that 2 cables and the stand is 13 euros more than in their online store, shipping domestic here in france was 8 euro according to their site so I said thanks but nothanks I rather purchase the things online then. He got really surprised and didn't really get why and asked me if I was sure.

I Left the store, went home, and ordered the stuff on ebay even cheaper (shipping included) and will never go back to that store again.

They just dont get it do they?


D.Don

[megadethjohn]

A friend of mine told me this story about buying a guitar at guitar center that really made me kinda mad.

He walks in the store and was planning on buying a nice guitar. He had about $1000 on him. He sits down and starts jamming on different guitars and an older salesman comes up and asks him if he's in there to buy anything or if he's just trying out guitars. He tells the guy he's just trying them out for now and the guy promptly disappears.

So he's jamming for a while and another salesman comes over, a younger dude in his 20's. They start talking about different things, the salesman isn't pressing a sale or anything, just being friendly and helpful. So my friend decides on a guitar and the salesman goes to get him a strap, straplocks, case, everything he needs in addition to the guitar basically. They go up to the counter and this guys about to ring him out when the first salesman walks up and says 'what the f*** do you think you're doing with my customer?' The older salesman basically threatens to get the younger one fired because he 'stole his customer' who he talked to first. The younger guy caved and walked away while the older guy made the sale and got the commission.

My friends not the kind of guy to get into other peoples business in situations like these but if that had happened to me I would have told the guy to go to hell and insist on the commission going to the second guy.

[McThumpin]

Yes, GC has gone even farther down the crapper. From what I understand, there was some corporate manuevering a couple months ago, and now they don't do "deals," and they no longer offer a professional discount to long-time customers. At my local GC, a lot of the friendly, familiar faces are no where to be found, replaced by employees that seem to be pretty dead behind the eyes. Every time I go in there nowadays, I get so bummed out, so I try to avoid GC like the plague, and thankfully, with craigslist, ebay, and community forums like this one, that's pretty easy to do these days.

I must say though, that the friendliest, most welcoming folks I've encountered at GC... are in the vintage room at the Hollywood store. Probably has something to do with being surrounded by millions of dollars worth of mouth-watering vintage gear, cause they're always so freaking giddy back there!

Yet on the other side of the street, at the corner of Sunset and A**holes, I went into another "vintage" gear store in Hollywood, and felt like I had just walked in on a mafia meeting. 5 or 6 guys at the back of the store, cold, hard staring at me with arms crossed while I gingerly perused. I thought they were gonna beat me over the head and stuff me in a anvil case. Definitely a lot of "shadow casting" in that joint.

[Lady Kayri]

In general I haven't had too many problems with the folks in GC in Mays Landing on the Black Horse Pike. Usually I know pretty much exactly what I want. Main problem I've had - only twice in quite a few visits - was, when I go into the bass section (they actually have a fairly decent selection, shock shock) is the reaction, something along the lines of "Oh, how sweet, the little lady wants to play bass..." Makes me want to hit some guitards up the side of the head with a two by four at times. Almost as bad as the "yeah, bass is easier than guitar 'cause only four strings" even when I'm looking at either 5 or 6 stringers... Argh.

Pat

[UncleBalsamic]

I hate going into music stores because of the little showing off-widdly thing the salesmen always do as after that I have to do my simple playing which I do to judge to myself if I like the instrument. I can't help but feel really embarassed.

[Lesfunk]

I avoid most of the Guitar Center B.S. by avoiding guitar center

[Lowpro]

I look at this and wonder, do all of you just hide in your house?

That's how ALL. SALES. ARE. It's the same at Wal mart or Dick's Sporting Goods.

I'm all for kids trying to play music, but if they lose it over 2 hours ina store than their mettle was tested and they are the failure.


And, when you buy a 6" patch cable, they're trained to ask "So, you building a pedal board" the same was the old lady in front of wal mart is trained to tell you to "Have a Nice Day"

So shut up.

EDIT: Forgot,

Ya know what bugs me, I know the reason the guys will play the instruments in front of kids, or the bass player will try playing the bass for the person. Because it sells. You have some horror story about some kid being deflated vbecause the salesman shredded in front of him.

If that's true, sorry that kid's a moron. If I see a dude play something sexy on a bass, damn well better believe I'd line up to buy that bass. It's the whole reason I'm now a Spector fanatic. People showing off is directly normal, and did you ever think maybe the salesman is trying to have some FUN. They aren't necessarily allowed to play on the job, so they take any excuse what they can. In the accessories department, I'd love to hook up effectsx to the bass there any play songs, it'd sell the pedals, sometimes even sell the bass I'm playing.

That's salesmanship.

[Matthew Bryson]

Originally Posted by Lowpro

I look at this and wonder, do all of you just hide in your house?

That's how ALL. SALES. ARE. It's the same at Wal mart or Dick's Sporting Goods.

Wal Mart doesn't have sales people pushing anything, or any employees who are paid on comission... I've never been to a sporting goods store that was that way either.

Guitar Center compares to a used car lot. Same type of sales.

How long have you worked at Guitar Center, anyway?

[McThumpin]

Originally Posted by Lowpro

That's salesmanship.

To me, good salesmanship means honesty, relating to the customer on their level, and being sincerely helpful. What you describe, I would call douchebaggery.

[Lowpro]

Sporting Goods:

Mostly shoes, all are sales/commissioned based. Footballs/softballs no.

I brought up wal-mart because it's a big box store.

Worked at guitar center close to a year, been thru the Bane buyout (that lil buyout you all piss and moan about. It's fixed pricing, nothing we can do about it, so point your guns to Bane)

made a lot of money there, made many kids/parents/musicians happy. I've only ever seen a few customers yell (they mostly yell about how we can't return mics since that's a health code violation or how we can't return software, and that's a copyrights violation), and in as long as I've worked there the store I worked at received only once complaint.

I just think I hear a lotta BS being slung from people who don't know. You talk about "mark up" and "commission" like it's the devil's work. But let's be honest. Guitar Center has a 30 day return policy. if you don't like your guitar or your effect, bring it back, try out another one. There is NO store that is that elastic. Hell, I've gotten screwed at Sam Ash, they wouldn't take back my GEB7, I had to deal with the manufacturer after only 17 days of having it. There's not store that does a better job of getting a customer what they need. That's the truth, you may disagree, but give me a list of gear you wanted, I coulda gotten it for you cheaper than anyone else.

The horror stories I hear aren't about Guitar Center, hell half aren't even qualified as "horror stories" it's just stupid rants by someone who won't get off their cross.

[Lowpro]

Originally Posted by McThumpin

To me, good salesmanship means honesty, relating to the customer on their level, and being sincerely helpful. What you describe, I would call douchebaggery.

And where's the douchebaggery? A kid wants to try a bass, I plug him in, paly it a bit to make sure it's working, and toss it at him. Wait a little while. ask him if he likes it, he says yes or no, if he says yes, cash or charge?

Where's the douchebaggery in that? Because that's what happens.Pretty much every time. Take the time, walk in one, check it out for yourself.

[Atoz]

Originally Posted by Lowpro

I look at this and wonder, do all of you just hide in your house?

That's how ALL. SALES. ARE. It's the same at Wal mart or Dick's Sporting Goods.

I'm all for kids trying to play music, but if they lose it over 2 hours ina store than their mettle was tested and they are the failure.


And, when you buy a 6" patch cable, they're trained to ask "So, you building a pedal board" the same was the old lady in front of wal mart is trained to tell you to "Have a Nice Day"

So shut up.

EDIT: Forgot,

Ya know what bugs me, I know the reason the guys will play the instruments in front of kids, or the bass player will try playing the bass for the person. Because it sells. You have some horror story about some kid being deflated vbecause the salesman shredded in front of him.

If that's true, sorry that kid's a moron. If I see a dude play something sexy on a bass, damn well better believe I'd line up to buy that bass. It's the whole reason I'm now a Spector fanatic. People showing off is directly normal, and did you ever think maybe the salesman is trying to have some FUN. They aren't necessarily allowed to play on the job, so they take any excuse what they can. In the accessories department, I'd love to hook up effectsx to the bass there any play songs, it'd sell the pedals, sometimes even sell the bass I'm playing.

That's salesmanship.

If you're sticking to one sales strategy for everyone who walks in the door, then you are doing yourself a disservice. For everyone who comes in and loves to watch you shred, there's another person who will be turned off by it. It's also a bit disquieting how you refer to someone who would be put off by that kind of behavior as a "moron." I doubt that that degree of disrespect for your customers gets you very far. I would hope that you take a couple of minutes to size up your potential customer before deciding upon a sales strategy. I would guess you'd be pretty successful if you did.

Example: If I were to walk into your store to buy a bass, I would select one and ask you to get it down off the wall for me. If the first thing you do is take it from the wall, plug it in, and start shredding without offering it to me first, you just lost the sale. I came into the store to buy a bass, not to watch you masturbate.

On the other hand, if am in the store to look at a head and/or cab, then obviously at some point I want you to plug a bass in and play so I can walk around and see how the amp/cab sounds in the room while you diddle with the EQ. Of course, as the customer, I decide at what time you get to do so.

If you take the time to look at salespeople who have had long-term success, you will see that they are the ones who know when to "take the lead" or let the customer feel like he's "in control," when it is appropriate.

[Lowpro]

^ oh yea, I agree. I wasn't talking about it as a single strategy, it's more like a "for instance"

Usually they "qualify" basically asking what the person is here for, what sound are they into or, the favorite, what music do you listen to/like to play.

After that you position and engage the customer at the right time, make sure they like what they're hearing, or if they want to try plugging into my BBE/pedal rack I've set up in the bass room with a Radial JD-7 going to all different types of amps, so they can hear it with the BBE (another point of salesmanship, try to ease other products in. You call it douchebaggery, but if the customer likes it, well then I'd be a douchebag for not showing him wouldn't I?)

The things in this thread though, it's mostly stupid. The arguments he posted up there, all to prove that end point he had, it's so inconsistent and just plain ignorant. If you don't like Guitar Center then don't shop there, but that also means you aren't even close to qualified to bash them, since you don't go there.

And yea we get paid minimum wage (not less than federal though) but even the average salesman can pull up a decent 2 week check.

[Atoz]

Originally Posted by Lowpro

^ oh yea, I agree. I wasn't talking about it as a single strategy, it's more like a "for instance"

Usually they "qualify" basically asking what the person is here for, what sound are they into or, the favorite, what music do you listen to/like to play.

After that you position and engage the customer at the right time, make sure they like what they're hearing, or if they want to try plugging into my BBE/pedal rack I've set up in the bass room with a Radial JD-7 going to all different types of amps, so they can hear it with the BBE (another point of salesmanship, try to ease other products in. You call it douchebaggery, but if the customer likes it, well then I'd be a douchebag for not showing him wouldn't I?)

The things in this thread though, it's mostly stupid. The arguments he posted up there, all to prove that end point he had, it's so inconsistent and just plain ignorant. If you don't like Guitar Center then don't shop there, but that also means you aren't even close to qualified to bash them, since you don't go there.

And yea we get paid minimum wage (not less than federal though) but even the average salesman can pull up a decent 2 week check.

Well... I never called it douchebaggery.

Honestly, if I were you, I wouldn't get too worked up over this thread. You can't expect to be held accountable for a screwup someone made at another store. What I would do is look over the complaints others have posted, and learn from them. Make sure you don't do the things that set them off. There's some good information here, and if you're willing to take it to heart, it can only make yourself a better salesman.

Some of the comments mentioned good experiences at GC. Perhaps you'll hear a lot of positive comments about yourself in the future.

[eotpr]

Lowpro do you treat your customers the way you have the people on this thread? Look at it. You managed to put everyone off. If you greet your customers displaying the same attitude that you just showed us I am surprised you could sell a kazoo. Attitude is exactly what the people that bash GC are talking about. As a customer all I expect is a little courtesy and not to be lied to. When someone comes over professing to be their bass expert I ask questions. I have had GC salesmen tell me that an Epiphone is just as good as Gibson. I don’t believe that. I don’t think that there is a guitarist or a bass player that believes that. I think it is the lack of respect and condescending attitudes that cause so many people to be put off by GC. We don’t want to be treated like we are stupid by a salesman. I understand that the entire purpose of a salesman is to get into my pockets and get as much money as he can out of it. If I am treated well and with respect I will always buy from that person, in fact I will hunt him down and even call the store to see when he will be in. If they treat me like a chump I will avoid doing business with them or their store.