My first run-in with a really bad soundman

bassman1185 · #1 10-29-2007, 09:21 AM

Saturday night was my first show with my new band, Calvary (www.myspace.com/calvaryrock), and we had to deal with the absolute worst sound guy I have ever had to work with. He made me turn down so far that I couldn't hear myself AT ALL over the drums, and told our lead guitarist to turn down so far that his Marshall JCM2000 sounded like a spring reverb tank getting kicked. It was ridiculous. After ten minutes of arguing with him, we finally managed to convince him to just let us run our amps without PA support (the room was only about 40'x40', so it's not like we wouldn't have been able to fill it without the PA) and just use the system for kick drum, toms, and vocals. The worst part of the situation was that he was using an Allen & Heath board that I am familiar with, so it took all of my self control not to just push him out of the way and do it myself.

We managed to put on a pretty good show despite the moron behind the board, and the crowd seemed to dig it a lot. It was just SO frustrating to have to deal with that kind of crap on our first show, when three of the five of us have never gigged before. The one gutiarist and I were in a band together for almost two years, so we were familiar with how these things work, so we were confident that things would work out pretty well one way or another, but our drummer was nervous going into the gig and the soudman situation certainly wasn't helping him.

mjolnir · #2 10-29-2007, 09:32 AM

Yeowch. I feel for ya, man. I've been there.

Way to keep a cool head, though.

rumblinbass · #3 10-29-2007, 09:42 AM

yep, been there more often than I care to remember.

zfate · #4 10-29-2007, 09:55 AM

i totally know the feeling! I'm dealing with it weekly now, 2 gigs/jams a week and so much tweaking because of the set-ups and people.. sigh* i need a good sound man!

invader3k · #5 10-29-2007, 10:03 AM

The best trick when they want you to keep turning down, is just to turn off your amp, and then point out that you're not even making sound, at that point. Then you have ammo to tell them how to do things the way you want.

MoD_Scotty · #6 10-29-2007, 02:27 PM

For some reason, the sound guy at the place my band plays at a lot thinks it's cool to not even mic my rig. He mics everything else, except my stuff. I've had to ask him on three separate occasions to mic my rig. Now, I'm pretty sure he's just plugging me in, but not even giving me any volume. This situation is forcing me to run my rig at retarded levels. I think next time, I'm going to insist on having more bass in the monitors. That way at least I know I'm actually getting into SOME part of the PA. It really pisses me off though, because my band is one of the few bands in the area where the bass is actually an integral part of the music.

**iriegnome** · #7 10-30-2007, 02:20 PM

We have our own FOH engineer so this does not happen. It really sucks to put on a show having to go through all of that during set up and sound check.

modulusman · #8 10-31-2007, 09:30 AM

Maybe the soundman wasn't such a moron. A 100 watt marshall head is way to much amp for a room that small. What was he using for a cab? Maybe the drummer needs to learn how to play a little softer.

SKATE RAT · #9 10-31-2007, 09:34 AM

stay away from the KNITTING FACTORY in NYC

SKATE RAT · #10 10-31-2007, 09:40 AM

i saw the band TRAGEDY play in a packed tiny basement with two full stacks and an SVT 8x10.full blast. awesome.the ceiling was so low they had to put the guitar cabs sideways.!

:hype r:

Bass Thunder · #11 10-31-2007, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassman1185

run our amps without PA support (the room was only about 40'x40', so it's not like we wouldn't have been able to fill it without the PA) and just use the system for kick drum, toms, and vocals.

That's probably what you should have done in the beginning for that room - no discussion necessary to turn into an argument.

Good things worked out in the end.

SteveC · #12 10-31-2007, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by modulusman

Maybe the soundman wasn't such a moron. A 100 watt marshall head is way to much amp for a room that small. What was he using for a cab? Maybe the drummer needs to learn how to play a little softer.

I have to agree. There is a lot of soundman bashing that goes on in here. Many "musicians" I talk to have no concept of sound reinforcement, balance or presence.

Just because you can "cary a room" with your stage gear doesn't mean it will sound good. YOu need balance and presence. We run everything through the PA - no matter what size the room is. Now, that doesn't mean that everything is cranked. It means that enough sound is sent through to create a nice mixed sound going to the FOH.

For example, we play a small restaurant/bar regularly. We could just mic vocals and get by. We choose to run everything - drums and bass included, in the FOH. All the kick needs is a little bit to give it a presence that you wouldn't get by just pounding on it without it being in the system.

I'm sure there are a number of bad sound guys. I'm equally sure there are a number of idiots playing in bands who think they know everything there is to know about SR. It's really hard to make a band sound good out front if they refuse to work with you.

FOH sound an stage sound are 2 different things. Take it easy on the soundguy.

curtis r · #13 10-31-2007, 11:26 AM

amen to that +1000000000000000000

Lorenzini · #14 10-31-2007, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassman1185

We managed to put on a pretty good show despite the moron behind the board, and the crowd seemed to dig it a lot.

Sounds like he did his job. The crowd seemed to dig it a lot. I bet they heard everything very clearly. And I'm willing to bet you guys were fighting him tooth and nail on every point, regarding turning down, so he probably said "**** it, I'm just going to make it sound good front of house, screw the stage.

There IS such a thing as monitors. You don't always have to make your amp carry the WHOLE room (and sound like crap whilst doing so).

But judging by your MySpace page recordings, you guys like to play so loud you probably have lost half your hearing anyway.

agreatheight · #15 10-31-2007, 11:34 AM

Simply put, if you think your band is so good as to expect better than provided FOH sound mixing, you should either a) be willing to pay for your own pro soundperson or b) not play that venue.

SteveC · #16 10-31-2007, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agreatheight

Simply put, if you think your band is so good as to expect better than provided FOH sound mixing, you should either a) be willing to pay for your own pro soundperson or b) not play that venue.

Another great post.

Ernie Ball · #17 10-31-2007, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoD_Scotty

For some reason, the sound guy at the place my band plays at a lot thinks it's cool to not even mic my rig. He mics everything else, except my stuff. I've had to ask him on three separate occasions to mic my rig. Now, I'm pretty sure he's just plugging me in, but not even giving me any volume. This situation is forcing me to run my rig at retarded levels. I think next time, I'm going to insist on having more bass in the monitors. That way at least I know I'm actually getting into SOME part of the PA. It really pisses me off though, because my band is one of the few bands in the area where the bass is actually an integral part of the music.

You may be somwhere in the PA but it doesn't mean you're in the FOH

If he's got a grudge he'd send the signal out of the Aux just to shut you up.

Bass Thunder · #18 10-31-2007, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorenzini

Sounds like he did his job. The crowd seemed to dig it a lot. I bet they heard everything very clearly. And I'm willing to bet you guys were fighting him tooth and nail on every point, regarding turning down, so he probably said "**** it, I'm just going to make it sound good front of house, screw the stage.

There IS such a thing as monitors. You don't always have to make your amp carry the WHOLE room (and sound like crap whilst doing so).

But judging by your MySpace page recordings, you guys like to play so loud you probably have lost half your hearing anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by agreatheight

Simply put, if you think your band is so good as to expect better than provided FOH sound mixing, you should either a) be willing to pay for your own pro soundperson or b) not play that venue.

Remember, we're talking about rock music in Iowa on a Saturday night in a small 1,600 square foot dance hall at the Elk's Lodge.

Plug in and just have fun!

agreatheight · #19 10-31-2007, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bass Thunder

Remember, we're talking about rock music in Iowa on a Saturday night in a small 1,600 square foot dance hall at the Elk's Lodge.

Plug in and just have fun!

I don't disagree with you - I think they should be rather overjoyed just to be playing out at all. But they aren't, which leads me to believe that they think they deserve better, so I hold to my post. If they truly believe they deserve more then they should be willing to take action to improve the situation. And more power to them! If not, then they are just whining, aren't they? Sorry if it seems harsh.

Bass Thunder · #20 10-31-2007, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agreatheight

they are just whining, aren't they? Sorry if it seems harsh.

I would say "Yes" on both counts.