My Pocket Pledge

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by DWBass

Is it really so hard to 'groove' and 'lock in'?? Is it that much work? Not for me! What were we doing before Victa came along? What were we doing before the gamut of busy playing gospel cats came along?

We were all playing bass. Grooving and locking in! Slapping was simple and melodic! Is it so hard to go back to that? I keep it simple. I play what the song needs. Not what "I" need!

Locking in is not hard, but locking in really well requires concentration and discipline, IMHO.

[walterw]

if you're good at it then it's easy, but the point is you have to get good at it, just like any other real skill that takes work and concentration.

[Richland123]

I have a good friend who is a very good bass player, very knowledgeable in music theory, and spent some time at Berklee but he plays so many unnecessary parts that many payers don't want to work with him. His style of overplaying, changing the parts drastically, or playing other musicians parts has cost him lots of work.

My style has always been to play with and not against the drummer, play the parts that are there, add to them tastefully, and never overplay. That has served me very well. I am known as a rhythmic player and the measure counter in bands and know where all the parts of the songs are. That goes the opposite working with drummers who play with me and follow what I do as well to make a tight rhythm section. Being in a 3 piece band, I sometimes have to fill up space or play guitar parts but not take away from the groove, step on the guitar, or drop out during leads.

[Eublet]

Problem is that many players think they are being tasteful when they are not. Not everyone has a good sense of what "good taste" is, whether they are playing or listening. I now that when I share the stage there are times when some of the other guys want me to be more busy, usually singers. It's almost aggravating because they want to hear those cool licks with no clue that they're super distracting to the song. Secondly, modern PA's don't really lend themselves to bass players stepping out of their supporting role anyway. The heavy use of subs and lack of low-mid presence means most of the cool things bass players do go completely unnoticed anyway. If you're playing through a fat sounding bass rig without PA support, then the situation is different and you can get some of those good licks flowing out in the audience. A smart and experienced bass player knows when and where to get away with little things. IMO it's a compromise because as a player you want to feel like you're getting to spread your wings a little but you also have to be the foundation for everything else. Weaving between those two things it what makes it fun, and hopefully the majority will find what you do groovy and tasteful.

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by Eublet

Problem is that many players think they are being tasteful when they are not. Not everyone has a good sense of what "good taste" is, whether they are playing or listening. I now that when I share the stage there are times when some of the other guys want me to be more busy, usually singers. It's almost aggravating because they want to hear those cool licks with no clue that they're super distracting to the song. Secondly, modern PA's don't really lend themselves to bass players stepping out of their supporting role anyway. The heavy use of subs and lack of low-mid presence means most of the cool things bass players do go completely unnoticed anyway. If you're playing through a fat sounding bass rig without PA support, then the situation is different and you can get some of those good licks flowing out in the audience. A smart and experienced bass player knows when and where to get away with little things. IMO it's a compromise because as a player you want to feel like you're getting to spread your wings a little but you also have to be the foundation for everything else. Weaving between those two things it what makes it fun, and hopefully the majority will find what you do groovy and tasteful.

My wife, who is a great singer, often tells me to step out and slap, or as she says it, "show what I can do!" I often say that me engaging in a Marcus Miller imitation does not fit most of what the choir is doing. I am glad, however, that my wife thinks that I play cool licks.

[walterw]

don't blame "modern PAs"; a good bass tone feeding a good overall mix will be heard just fine whether soloing or not.

if the guy out front has "soundman's disease" and is dialing in a crushing kick drum that leaves you inaudible, that's his fault, not the system's.

[Rev.Dr.]

Originally Posted by DWBass

I keep it simple. I play what the song needs. Not what "I" need!

1000+. Whenever I tend to overplay, I get into my own little world. The only problem is nobody else comes with me. I, too have gone back to staying in the pocket and holding down the groove. Playing busy lines does not always sound better. I agree that in most instances less is better.

[4dog]

My church has just a 3 piece worship band ,, guitarist plays acoustic only no solos no melodic runs just strumming and time phrasing any leads drop on me which makes it really intetesting i do play a bit more than i would ina 5 piece but ya gotta play whats in your heart and give your best ,, my thinking is your playing for God,, give your best as it wrks for the music after all ,, He invented it.

[Waster]

My roots as a bassist are in church music. The church I attend is very musical, and so each band only plays every two months or so.
When I first started playing bass I learnt all the I-III-V-bVII and whatever, and tried to show-off with that. When I realised that that was working out, I tried to do all these 'interesting' rhythms, but people just thought I had bad timing! I finally realised that all I needed to do was play root notes and focus on dynamics. There are sone songs when I play busier bass lines (Hear the Call of the Kingdom, I Will Sing of Your Love Forever) and quite a few country tunes with busy root-fifth lines (Jesus the Nazarene, Build Your Kingdom Here etc.), but I only do this if that's how it's played in the recording, or the worship leader asks for it. In most songs, the main fill that I use is sliding up an octave at the end of a build up.
Since I sorted this out, I have been recruited to play in two other worship bands, as well as the youth band, all because I'm complementing the song (and do what I'm told!)

[mongo2]

This brings to mind the saying that goes something like, "You can't carry a groove if you don't have a pocket."

[Pilgrim]

To me, a BIG "fill" is to find the right three notes in passing.

And that will always be below the 5th fret.

Fills and noodling are for guitars, not bass.

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by Pilgrim

To me, a BIG "fill" is to find the right three notes in passing.

And that will always be below the 5th fret.

Fills and noodling are for guitars, not bass.

It would be pretty hard to cover our material if I stayed below the fifth fret.

[Steve Dallman]

Be transparent...worship by example...that they might see Jesus.

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by Steve Dallman

Be transparent...worship by example...that they might see Jesus.

+1

That is the goal.

[walterw]

Originally Posted by 4dog

My church has just a 3 piece worship band ,, guitarist plays acoustic only no solos no melodic runs just strumming and time phrasing any leads drop on me which makes it really interesting i do play a bit more than i would ina 5 piece...

in that situation, a steady strumming acoustic almost takes over some of the "hold the root down" part of the job, which would indeed free up a bass player; a minimal number of players in general might also nudge you to get more "adventurous" to fill up some empty sonic space.

you still wanna stay out of the way, though (i like the term "transparent" here, that makes sense).

[SevenJacks]

I'm going to write "Never lose the groove to find a note" on the top of my neck in glow paint... Love that!

I've only been playing with a band for about 3 years but really early on I was completely shocked by things I noticed when I would listen to our recordings:

1) Simplicity. I would practice for HOURS on finding and adding just some little fill (i am not a busy player) and then listening to it afterwards it still sounded busy and the song looses it's 'oomph' (or something) at that point.

2) Consistency of simplicity. This was a REAL eye opener. I found myself changing a few tiny things in different verses or choruses to fill some sonic space and add variety. WOW was I wrong. That was my first self-induced slap in the face that songs need to build and release. A fill in the FIRST chorus of the song can make the song feel like it's already ending! That amazed me.

[Winemule]

I am lucky enough to work with a guy who used to play drums for Bo Diddley. For the first year I worked with him, he never said a word about my playing. We were rehearsing something, can't remember what it was, and I said something about not being sure what to play. He looked at me and said "Just keep doing that boom-boom-boom."

It was good advice.

[Dr. Cheese]

This evening I am going to play along with some simple songs just for timing. I am really working on clearing up my "fillitis."

[bumperbass]

I always get a laugh when I take a trip to the 'big city' and visit 2 or 3 music stores. I have a blast. It's fun to check out the new stuff and just look around. What's even more fun for me is the kid trying out the bass or the bass amps. He's playing that riff he's worked on for who knows how long. I keep asking myself 'does this kid play in a REAL band for money'? If you're gonna check out a bass or an amp, you're going to be checking TONE first. It never ceases to amaze (and amuse) me when I hear a bass player overplaying, no matter where it is.

[SBassman]

Great thread.