My sub's sub showed up with a 6 string frettless

[TimK]

Maybe this has been said already (this thread is long and I didn't read all of it) but, on a postive note-This could have been an eye opening event for the "subs sub." He may know now what it really takes to be a competent player, and how much work he/she needs to put in to get where they want to be. I had a similar thing happen to me in my freshman year of college. I was asked to sit in with a local jazz group. I did, and when the band leader called "Blue Bossa" i played a walking bass line thorugh the whole thing. I got some bad looks and then the bass was yanked away from me at the end of the song. It was a mental watershed moment. From that point on I knew I had a lot of work to do. It paid off and got me to where I am now. It was a real reality check for a cocky young musician. I;m older and wiser now and know how to play a bossa!

Just trying to keep it positve- us bass players need to stick togther!

[Gard]

Originally Posted by willgroove2

Got a call from the BL booking me for a couple of dates, after he asked me about the dates he said if you Sub out don't send The guy that was supposed to Sub for me in the first place because after he gave it more thought the original sub didn't call him to let him know about the problem and he has his numbers. It was his opinion that if the original Sub had called him first he could of got a better sub or at least made the call himself,so he is not into working with him right now.

Well, I'd say I predicted this, didn't I? (...I am so annoying when I get to say "I told you so!", aren't I? )

So, Mr. Campbell, further comments?

Sub #1 just screwed himself out of future work with the OP's bandleader, with an assist from the sub's sub. This is exactly as it should be, Sub #1 should have, as I said in my last post, called the BL directly, NOT found some half-@$$ed "maybe he can do the gig" dude in a music store; and sub's sub should have realized that he couldn't do said gig correctly and turned it down, thus saving potential future gigage for Sub #1. Sub's sub won't be getting any calls in this present situation, there are far too many GOOD players available to cover this, as the OP has pointed out, there are plenty of good players with NO gigs already, anyone think sub's sub will get a call before them? Not now for sure, if he'd thought ahead, maybe...

All because someone didn't think it through...both subs got what they deserved, IMO.

[JimmyM]

Will, the corporate thing has slowed down incredibly for me. I used to do 5 or 6 a month. Now I do 5 or 6 a year. And yet, I had the best year I ever had last year and this year is shaping up after a slow Feb-March. Part of it is because I got mad at not getting my own hotel room on a road gig after everyone else did except the guys in the rhythm section and I demanded they get me my own hotel room. Apparently I don't kiss enough ass

But yeah, the outcome was predictable...your sub blew it for himself. But at least he didn't hold it against you so be happy for that.

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by Gard

Well, I'd say I predicted this, didn't I? (...I am so annoying when I get to say "I told you so!", aren't I? )

So, Mr. Campbell, further comments?

Sub #1 just screwed himself out of future work with the OP's bandleader, with an assist from the sub's sub. This is exactly as it should be, Sub #1 should have, as I said in my last post, called the BL directly, NOT found some half-@$$ed "maybe he can do the gig" dude in a music store; and sub's sub should have realized that he couldn't do said gig correctly and turned it down, thus saving potential future gigage for Sub #1. Sub's sub won't be getting any calls in this present situation, there are far too many GOOD players available to cover this, as the OP has pointed out, there are plenty of good players with NO gigs already, anyone think sub's sub will get a call before them? Not now for sure, if he'd thought ahead, maybe...

All because someone didn't think it through...both subs got what they deserved, IMO.

nah im done.....for good or ill i choose to look at this situation differently than y'all and for me its a good fit

[Gard]

Originally Posted by Jim Campbell

nah im done.....for good or ill i choose to look at this situation differently than y'all and for me its a good fit

Props to you for sticking to your guns, FWIW, I don't completely disagree with you, but sometimes the "right" thing is not the RIGHT thing, y'dig?

When you're looking at these corporate/casual gig situations, you have to thing BUSINESS first, not the "nice guy" thing to do.

If this were about my buddy's classic rock cover band, it would be a completely different situation....

[Tommy Lotus]

Whats up Will. That's messed up! You could've call me if the gig was going to a crappy bass player. I'm good enough to be a sub's sub...I think...lol!

Ken Edmonds
AKA

[KeithPas]

Originally Posted by Gard

Props to you for sticking to your guns, FWIW, I don't completely disagree with you, but sometimes the "right" thing is not the RIGHT thing, y'dig?

When you're looking at these corporate/casual gig situations, you have to thing BUSINESS first, not the "nice guy" thing to do.

If this were about my buddy's classic rock cover band, it would be a completely different situation....

I think it is good to make this distinction. Coorporate gigs are bread and butter gigs; all business and much different than the run of the mill club gig.

[Smallmouth_Bass]

Good read boys!

I like to read stories and experiences from the real life gigging world of professional bassists.

While I am not a full-time pro like many of you, every time I get and play occasional gigs with my cover band, I try to conduct myself in as professional a fashion as possible. You learn many things as you go along, some by trial and error.

Just curious, do you guys have examples (actual charts) of the types of reading that you would have to do on such a corporate gig? If it's not kosher to post it here, I'd be happy to take a PM (chart in PDF format or whatever).

[JimmyM]

Bass, for me it varies. Sometimes it's just chord charts. Sometimes it's a fully notated part. Sometimes it's a mix.

[Freddels]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Will, the corporate thing has slowed down incredibly for me. I used to do 5 or 6 a month. Now I do 5 or 6 a year. And yet, I had the best year I ever had last year and this year is shaping up after a slow Feb-March. Part of it is because I got mad at not getting my own hotel room on a road gig after everyone else did except the guys in the rhythm section and I demanded they get me my own hotel room. Apparently I don't kiss enough ass

But yeah, the outcome was predictable...your sub blew it for himself. But at least he didn't hold it against you so be happy for that.

So, if I understand this correctly, you're doing better financially b/c you demanded your own room?

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Freddels

So, if I understand this correctly, you're doing better financially b/c you demanded your own room?

Awkward wording, huh?

[a1bassguy]

The sub-sub should have been wearing a chicken outfit just to match how ridiculous that whole scene must have been. LOL!

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by willgroove2

Got a call from the BL booking me for a couple of dates, after he asked me about the dates he said if you Sub out don't send The guy that was supposed to Sub for me in the first place because after he gave it more thought the original sub didn't call him to let him know about the problem and he has his numbers. It was his opinion that if the original Sub had called him first he could of got a better sub or at least made the call himself,so he is not into working with him right now.

The thing is things are a little lean in the jobbing (Corporate) market in Chicago right now,some of my friends who work with the bigger bands don't have dates until may or June. I'm lucky in the sense that corporate gigs are only one of my sources of musical income but for my friends who do corporate work as their main thing they are not happy. It's trending back to smaller combo's (5-6 pieces including singers) Thats why IMO it's more important than ever to be up on your professionalism,there's 10 guy's looking for work who could nail the gig. For those that do this kind of work how does it look for you so far this year?

Very similar. The busiest band I was working with is down to one or two gigs a month. I'm down to between 6 to 8 gigs a month since December (December 2007 I did 21 gigs IIRC... with a dayjob). It'll probably pick up this month but it was weird to have so much down time from gigging. The 6-8 gigs were spread between 4-5 differnt groups.

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

This is possibly the best line out of this whole thread, other than my Jaco line Confidence is indeed contagious.

You just have to keep it from crossing over into cocky. A blank look helps.


I like knowing what I'm doing. I like tripping people out when I sub with them and they go through an entire set and the only question I might ask is what key they do a song in. Then they trip out again because I don't care what key they want to do it in, I'll play it in that key. When I get asked what key I want to do a song in, my usual answer is I don't care, do it wherever you want.

Or letting them know that unless they're doing their own arrangement there's no need to call out changes to me, I got it. That's a fun one with people who are used gto having to do it. Or when they call a song they always wanted to do but the other guy didn't know it. That's one you really have to be careful with...

I did a Neo Soul/ R&B/etc. type gig where I recommended a keyboard player I like to play with because in addition to being an absolute beast, he knows a ton of songs too. Last set of the night, the guitar player had run out of songs he knew and asked what we knew. The singer called out a song she'd always wanted to do and we knew it, counted it off and nailed it. Unfortunately the guitar player didn't and when we did that the singer and drummer got so hyped they started calling out other stuff they'd always wanted to do. We hit Stevie Wonder's "Too High" in the key she wanted, she asked if we knew any Chaka Khan, told her to pick anything from Rufus on up, she did "Pack'd My Bags", did some early Steely Dan, Cameo's "Cameosis", the original arrangement of Dony Hathaway's "A Song For You"... it was a pretty good set. The guitar player got away with doing some chicken picking here and there.

The drummer and the singer were in heaven. The keyboardist and I basically followed whatever the vocalist wanted to do. The crowd went nuts but this was the guitarist's gig. We probably won't get called back... and I'm okay with that.

And no, I'm not some virtuouso... I'm competent.

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by Smallmouth_Bass

Good read boys!

I like to read stories and experiences from the real life gigging world of professional bassists.

While I am not a full-time pro like many of you, every time I get and play occasional gigs with my cover band, I try to conduct myself in as professional a fashion as possible. You learn many things as you go along, some by trial and error.

Just curious, do you guys have examples (actual charts) of the types of reading that you would have to do on such a corporate gig? If it's not kosher to post it here, I'd be happy to take a PM (chart in PDF format or whatever).

The Real Book is available in pdf format, I know guys who bring laptops with them. I typically get music emailed to me and I do my own shorthand for things I might not remember on short notice. Otherwise it's all burned into memory. I found a very easy to carry music stand (folds up very small) and that's very handy for the times someone hands me sheet music. My sightreading sucks, I stick to chord charts and I let people know that upfront. No point in BS'ing anybody about something like that.

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by Gard

Well, I'd say I predicted this, didn't I? (...I am so annoying when I get to say "I told you so!", aren't I? )

So, Mr. Campbell, further comments?

Sub #1 just screwed himself out of future work with the OP's bandleader, with an assist from the sub's sub. This is exactly as it should be, Sub #1 should have, as I said in my last post, called the BL directly, NOT found some half-@$$ed "maybe he can do the gig" dude in a music store; and sub's sub should have realized that he couldn't do said gig correctly and turned it down, thus saving potential future gigage for Sub #1. Sub's sub won't be getting any calls in this present situation, there are far too many GOOD players available to cover this, as the OP has pointed out, there are plenty of good players with NO gigs already, anyone think sub's sub will get a call before them? Not now for sure, if he'd thought ahead, maybe...

All because someone didn't think it through...both subs got what they deserved, IMO.

What's amazing is that people still do this. Just send someone cold to a gig with no heads up for the contractor. Duh.

[willgroove2]

Originally Posted by Tommy Lotus

Whats up Will. That's messed up! You could've call me if the gig was going to a crappy bass player. I'm good enough to be a sub's sub...I think...lol!

Ken Edmonds
AKA

What up Ken!,your more than good enough ;Are you still hitting with Dirty?

[willgroove2]

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

The Real Book is available in pdf format, I know guys who bring laptops with them. I typically get music emailed to me and I do my own shorthand for things I might not remember on short notice. Otherwise it's all burned into memory. I found a very easy to carry music stand (folds up very small) and that's very handy for the times someone hands me sheet music. My sightreading sucks, I stick to chord charts and I let people know that upfront. No point in BS'ing anybody about something like that.

I get everything from bands with high tech Music pro displays where i don't even have to turn the page to big books of charts all out of order,all in the wrong key and missing charts. I read fairly well but i will brush up if I have a heavy reading gig with someone unfamiliar to me. Two of the main things I'm glad I learned in music school was how to write a quick little chart's and how to transpose,although i kinda knew that from growing up playing in church.

[Gard]

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

What's amazing is that people still do this. Just send someone cold to a gig with no heads up for the contractor. Duh.

Yeah, no matter WHAT the context, THAT is unacceptable.

Will is fortunate to have not been dinged for the dumb@$$ move his sub made, that is a rare thing, most BL/contractors I've dealt with would have never given any one of the three a second chance after something like this. It's a business, you can't go out and do a job (gig) without knowing your crew is all going to be there and competent to accomplish the job.

Even if it was a typical bar band situation, sending out a sub-sub without contacting the bandleader is just assinine, no matter what. I totally understand that defecation occurs, but man, some level of "professionalism" is a requirement, isn't it? I know that even as a plebe bandmember, I will refuse to work with a no-show again, but if someone calls to explain WHY they can't make it, and they have a reasonable/plausible story, they have my understanding (as long as it isn't a habit...).

Had that one happen a few weeks ago at a pickup gig on a Sunday night, the drummer just no-showed, didn't call, didn't answer his cell. I'll never ever work with that guy again, and it's sad, because he's talented. Luckily, the place, which is usually PACKED on a Sunday night (it's a club where all the waitstaff from other clubs hangs on Sunday to blow off steam - the weather was SUCKING that night, everyone stayed home) was empty, the manager/bartender comped our bar tabs (which I dutifully abused at that point - with his encouragement! ) and told us to leave at our discretion. I didn't get paid, because this putz didn't show, however, so he cost me money, and there is no forgiving it.

...and, man, I'm out of it, you can get the Real Book in .pdf format? I am going to have to track THAT down!!!

[Humabass]

Back in my younger days I was asked to sub for a notoriously unreliable bassist who had a habit of double booking gigs.

He called me and asked me to sub for a band that was opening up for Lyle Lovett at a private party for some very wealthy people. I asked him what type of music it was. He misrepresented the music by saying " Oh, it's all the usual cover tunes you already know". He put me in touch with the BL and it turned out that this was a BIG BAND and was coming from out of town. The gig was two weeks away. I don't play Big Band or Jazz and don't read notation, just chord charts.

Was I tempted to woodshed for two weeks and learn how to play music that I NEVER play, sure. But I knew what the right thing to do was. Since I already had agreed to do the gig I called around to some of the best local players and found a great upright player who nailed the gig. One of the guys I called who wasn't available since he was one of the busiest bassists in the area told me I did the right thing and said you never should take a gig that you don't think you can do. I've taken that advice to heart through the years.

Turning down a gig shows that you have discipline, common sense, and a realistic outlook, as well as a sense of responsibility.

Would have been a cool gig, though!