No Cover Song Policy???

Jazz Hands · #1 05-17-2009, 07:36 AM

My original band that I'm gigging with has one cover song in our set as many original bands do. Friday night we had a gig at this great new venue in town and upon load in asked to sign a form stating we would not play any cover songs; then told they would pull the plug if we did. We politely explained that we're a relatively new band and that we don't have a lot of extra material to sub in & also last week we checked out the club & 2 of the 3 bands performing played a cover song (not to mention our night the headliner canceled & they were requesting bands play longer). The explanation was that they don't pay the ASCAP fee & the bands from the previous week had the rights to play those songs. I'm not horribly familiar w/ this aspect but the sound guy was running music off his iPod during breaks so not sure how that flies either.

In all the years I've gigged I've never had this come up, anyone else have similar experience?

Tunaman · #2 05-17-2009, 07:38 AM

wow, never saw a bar enforce this crazy

Hutch1 · #3 05-17-2009, 07:54 AM

I went through a similar experience researching cover tunes and copyrights. I'd have to dig for the information, but if I remember correctly I found that the ASCAP/BMI license is a venue's responsibility, not a band's.

Perhaps there are venue owners here who can confirm and/or expand on this.

NKUSigEp · #4 05-17-2009, 08:20 AM

That's why restaurants won't sing "Happy Birthday" to you after dinner anymore, instead they have their own cheesy jingle because some guy owns the rights to that song.

kirkm24 · #5 05-17-2009, 08:39 AM

Wow! I've never heard of this. Usually for me, it's the exact opposite - no originals. The bars in Columbus hate original music and want bands to only play covers because that's what the patrons want and that is what sells the boos. Obviously, these bars are not aware of the copyright issues. These would be difficult to enforce IMO.

evergroove · #6 05-17-2009, 08:42 AM

Is this really how it works? If a band plays a cover song, publicly, then the person who owns the rights to the song gets compensated?

mikeyswood · #7 05-17-2009, 08:44 AM

Boos or booze? Big difference.

Ric5 · #8 05-17-2009, 08:50 AM

Usually bar owners want covers because they want people to hear music they like and are familar with so they stay, drink, and dance. For me I find many original bands have a talent for writing a lot of semi-interesting songs that seem to lack a hook.

alembicguy · #9 05-17-2009, 08:51 AM

In the area I play it depends on how much pressure the clubs are getting to stay current on their ASCAP dues.

kirkm24 · #10 05-17-2009, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeyswood

Boos or booze? Big difference.

I guess it's booze.

CapnSev · #11 05-17-2009, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hutch1

I went through a similar experience researching cover tunes and copyrights. I'd have to dig for the information, but if I remember correctly I found that the ASCAP/BMI license is a venue's responsibility, not a band's.

Perhaps there are venue owners here who can confirm and/or expand on this.

^ This.

The venue you're playing at doesn't have an ASCAP license and doesn't want to get the pants sued off of them. There's a few venues around that are that way here as well.

The only way you guys could get away with cover tunes in a place like this is for all of you to go get your ASCAP licenses. It's really cheap and easy, lasts a lifetime, and it might save your hide someday (I question sometimes how many of these places I play really have their own license).

Bluesbreaker5 · #12 05-17-2009, 09:21 AM

ASCAP does have "music police"....people hired by them to visit venues or businesses that play music such as bars, restaurants, malls, shops, anywhere that might be playing a radio, CDs, etc where the public can hear it.

Their job is to make sure that the venue or business is current with ASCAP fees. If they are not, they can be fined on the spot. Many times the "music police" can waive the fine if the business owner signs a contract to begin to pay the fees.

Businesses and venues that pay for jukeboxes, satellite music, Muzak, etc, are covered because their agreement with the company that provides the music includes ASCAP fees.

The venue is responsible for paying fees, not the band. The "music police" people are commissioned salespeople. The chance of a bar getting caught due to a band playing a cover song at midnight is very slim, but does exist, since the "police" have to hear the infraction.

It may sound that ASCAP bullys people to pay the fees, but it is legal. My personal feeling is that copyright laws are important to protect those artists that depend on their music to make a living, but I also think the record companies are the ones who mostly benefit. That should change, and very well might in the future as more and more artists are finding ways to be successful without the major recording companies.

So if a venue owner says, "No Covers" it would be best to honor that request. The venue owner could be fined if caught, and he could potentially sue the band to recover his fine.

mrwink · #13 05-17-2009, 09:27 AM

Why should a band get a license???

This is from ASCAP's site:

12. Aren't musicians, entertainers and DJ's responsible for obtaining permission for music they perform?

Some people mistakenly assume that musicians and entertainers must obtain licenses to perform copyrighted music or that businesses where music is performed can shift their responsibility to musicians or entertainers. The law says all who participate in, or are responsible for, performances of music are legally responsible. Since it is the business owner who obtains the ultimate benefit from the performance, it is the business owner who obtains the license. Music license fees are one of the many costs of doing business.

CapnSev · #14 05-17-2009, 09:31 AM

Like I said, just in case. It was like $40, and lasts forever, so why not? It would look pretty good when the venue tries to take you to court because they don't have their license, then you do. I think you'd be pretty safe in that situation.

It gives you easy access to copyright your own material too.

mrwink · #15 05-17-2009, 09:37 AM

I see - that IS cheaps! Thanks

mytmous · #16 05-17-2009, 09:39 AM

So, how would this apply to something like posting on YouTube or a Band Website? My band has posted a couple covers in the past on YouTube and have received emails from artist's lawyers to remove them. Would this license cover something like that? I'm going to go read up on this anyway, but thought I'd throw it out there.

Hutch1 · #17 05-17-2009, 09:46 AM

Is it easy for a band to get a license? I was under the impression that one had to find the publisher of each cover song performed and then had to get permission from each publisher. I understand that the BMI-ASCAP would be a blanket license for their vast catalogue, but it seemed that trying to track down the lesser publishers was a pain. Therefore I was relieved to find that it was a venue's responsibility. Of course the drawback is that if neither the band nor the venue has a license, then only originals can be performed.

Bluesbreaker5 · #18 05-17-2009, 09:54 AM

I'm not completely sure, but I believe that having a card would allow you to play your copyrighted material anywhere, anytime (lifelong) but I would make sure it allows you to play other's copyrighted material in public. I would doubt it.

If that were the case, then ASCAP & BMI's main source of income (fees) would begin to dry up. I don't think they are not going to let that happen.

ColdSteelRain · #19 05-17-2009, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mytmous

So, how would this apply to something like posting on YouTube or a Band Website?

Playing live requires a performance license, while making a recording falls under reproduction. Two separate "rights" of the owner, two separate licenses.

Depending on where you live, there may be compulsory licensing laws that govern the reproduction rights. If so, that would allow you to record a cover and distribute it as long as you pay the proper fee.

Hutch1 · #20 05-17-2009, 09:55 AM

BTW, one reason I was looking into this was that I was considering playing weddings, corporate events, etc., and I don't know many corporate execs or brides who want all-original unknown music at their functions.

Good point from Bluesbreaker5. The attorneys would like all cover bands and venues to think that the poor recording artists will starve if the license fees aren't paid, when in reality I imagine a lot of the money goes straight to the record companies.