The old "too loud guitar" dead horse

kcole4001 · #1 12-28-2010, 09:08 AM

Well, my band was running sound and playing a slot at the Boxing Day jam just past, and I was all pumped to see the bassist in the band after us had just got a new 4003 (which is my favorite bass), so I talked to him a bit about it and was anxiously awaiting hearing what my sound usually is out front, since he's using my rig and our PA.

They start off an original, intro is a palm muted guitar figure on a Les Paul Standard, but when the lead player kicks in on his slab bodied LP, that's all you can hear, and his tone is all high end, thin and scratchy sounding.
Not to mention WAY TOO FRICKIN LOUD! (as per the title).
His slider goes all the way down, everything else gets a little boost on the board, but he's still too loud.

So, not only could I not hear the bass, I had to clear out, as did several others who were there.

As always, why can't people tell they're just way too loud? (fhetorical question)
They're younger guys (mid 20s probably)and seem nice enough, but guitar guy just blasts away with no concern for the rest of the band or the audience.

Oh well, just venting. I was disappointed to not hear the bass as I wanted.

ilovenofrets · #2 12-28-2010, 09:10 PM

I can say from personal experience, guitarists tend to get Volumitis-yes-TOO LOUD!!! In a related topic, Geddy Lee once said in an interview-You bass players who think you aren't loud enough on stage, you're right!

Rocinante_x1 · #3 12-28-2010, 09:18 PM

Guitar players that play too loud like that are usually playing too loud to try and hide mistakes they're making or sloppiness. I've noticed this with bands like Slayer, cannibal corpse and Job For A Cowboy live.

Stumbo · #4 12-28-2010, 11:18 PM

If you were running the sound, how did the guitarist sound during the sound check?

IMO/IME, if the musician's onstage could balance their FOH sound, they wouldn't need sound people!

If you were unable to do a sound check, I would have let the band know that the sound guys would be adjusting the amp volume if the FOH couldn't be balanced.

somegeezer · #5 12-28-2010, 11:25 PM

Sorry, but if he's too loud when the PA is turned off on him, then you just get him to turn down his amp or gtfo. Seems pretty simple to me. I mean, I'm sure he wouldn't really put up much of a fight if he really wanted to play. [and presumably get paid?]...

GeneralElectric · #6 12-28-2010, 11:40 PM

He probably had his amp cranked too. They key to a good FOH mix is a low stage volume.

I'm a proponent of everyone playing 50 watt amps or less.

Souperman08 · #7 12-28-2010, 11:54 PM

When I play guitar for gigs, I have a 5 watt amp. Happy bandmates and happy sound guys all around.

phatbass · #8 12-29-2010, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcole4001

no concern for the rest of the band or the audience.

This is the answer to why. Not a team player.

kcole4001 · #9 12-29-2010, 09:28 AM

No pay involved except for the PA support, it was a traditional boxing day jam, in effect a fund raiser for the bar.
I don't know why, but that's the tradition around here.
I usually manage to get out of it, but this year the drummer really wanted to have our band play.

Regarding the too loud guitar player, he copped some self important attitude every time he's been there, like his band's the star of the show or something.
They're a good band, but I can't listen to that racket any more than a couple of songs.

His amp was cranked, and he'd throw a fit if Dave (our drummer and sound guy) went up on stage and turned him down at the amp, so in the interest of keeping the peace, nothing was done about it.
The very basic sound check for this situation consists of everyone checking their stage levels and (supposedly) adjusting to match each other, the mains get tweaked as the first song progresses.
It's an hour slot, with usually 10-15 min taken up by setup and teardown of each band's personal gear, such as guitar amps and pedals, and some miscellaneous drum hardware.
There's not really any more time for a formal sound check.
Bands just show up usually 30 min before they play, go up, plug in and play.
Every band gets an hour, and there are something in the order of at least 10-12 bands throughout the afternoon and evening.

As I said, I prefer to avoid the boxing day jam thing entirely, I don't like the idea of it and would rather not participate at all, but it's a paying sound job for the guys, so that's why I agreed to go. Besides, we needed the practice for the upcoming New Year's gig.

The sensible players (that are a pleasure to work with) realize they're too loud and turn down themselves, or more accurately don't get into this situation in the first place.

DanNowhere · #10 12-29-2010, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phatbass

This is the answer to why. Not a team player.

There are other guys in the band?

Raymeous · #11 12-29-2010, 09:46 AM

First guess: He's a guitarist and not a musician.

Before any other guitar geeks like myself chime in with a 'tude let me explain. When we first start playing all we hear when listening to music is the instrument we play, be it bass, guitar, drums, etc... Very quickly all you listen to while playing is YOU playing. At this point you are a bass player, a guitarist, a drummer, but after a while you learn to listen to the BAND and do what's best for the SONG, thereby earning the title of musician. For some this skill comes quickly for others they just never get it.

The common arguement of "I gotta be this loud to get my sound" has a smidge of truth to it, but generally speaking the only people who might care are the other players in the audience. The thing is as a long time guitarist (25+ years) I am more impressed by a players attitude and ability to work with a band than with tone. If you buy the right gear you will have a good tone, that only takes money not talent. However if you can use that gear effectively in context, then you will impress a lot of people including the other musicians in the audience and your band will do well.

If anything mention it to the other members of the band. "Hey I could see that you were playing your butt off but I couldn't hear a thing because your lead player was way too loud."

Theres my dos centavos

Caca de Kick · #12 12-29-2010, 09:56 AM

Every good soundman I've run across tells the guitar player to turn it down.

superbassman2000 · #13 12-29-2010, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilovenofrets

I can say from personal experience, guitarists tend to get Volumitis-yes-TOO LOUD!!! In a related topic, Geddy Lee once said in an interview-You bass players who think you aren't loud enough on stage, you're right!

your anderson quote is fairly appropriate here--don't surround yourself with yourself lol

I can understand the whole cranked tube amp for "THE" sound but at the same time, know your venue and get a power soak or a lower wattage amp. If we can't bring our 4x15s to a bar gig, you can't dime your marshall stack.

duff beer · #14 12-29-2010, 10:21 AM

Maybe the guy who plays guitar in our band is different, but he never needs to crank it to get "his sound". At soundcheck the first thing we do is get a proper volume level for all the instruments...which only takes a couple of minutes. Play a few bars of a few different songs and you should be able to hear it right away, make an adjustment, and be done.

GeneralElectric · #15 12-29-2010, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superbassman2000

your anderson quote is fairly appropriate here--don't surround yourself with yourself lol

I can understand the whole cranked tube amp for "THE" sound but at the same time, know your venue and get a power soak or a lower wattage amp. If we can't bring our 4x15s to a bar gig, you can't dime your marshall stack.

This is why I play with a 55 watt tube amp for bass. I can crank it a little to get some grit, but thats about it. I generally don't as I like smooth clean bass tone. If everyone else is at a reasonable volume, you can hear me and we don't need to mic the drums. If I have my way I make the guitarist play through my Deluxe Reverb (I think its only 22 watts) and another Fender amp thats about 18 watts. They're plenty loud. If the audience needs to hear us more, you get a microphone.

I posted a thread on it here too and most people didn't agree with me. On the whole, I find most bands to be too loud overall.

DanNowhere · #16 12-29-2010, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneralElectric

On the whole, I find most bands to be too loud overall.

I totally agree with you on this point. I've quit or turned down offers from plenty of bands who I thought were too loud and refused to control their levels for gigs and rehearsals. They thought I was insane when I suggested they turn stuff down.

Winnb · #17 12-29-2010, 11:04 AM

His amp goes to 10, but his ego goes to 11. When a player is that much louder than everyone else it's all ego.

jnuts1 · #18 12-29-2010, 11:18 AM

air traffic controler helmet things, they thought it was completley normal to wear them while practicing. i left after about 30 minutes. worst audition ever

GeneralElectric · #19 12-29-2010, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanNowhere

I totally agree with you on this point. I've quit or turned down offers from plenty of bands who I thought were too loud and refused to control their levels for gigs and rehearsals. They thought I was insane when I suggested they turn stuff down.

Same here. We're at rehearsal, not playing Madison Square Garden. I'm actually quitting one of my bands for that reason. My guitarist keeps getting louder and louder as gigs go on. I'm quitting soon.

irishpride28 · #20 12-29-2010, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneralElectric

Same here. We're at rehearsal, not playing Madison Square Garden. I'm actually quitting one of my bands for that reason. My guitarist keeps getting louder and louder as gigs go on. I'm quitting soon.

He'll probably get all defensive and then try to convince you to stick around for a couple more gigs, where he'll conveniently turn the level down- don't fall for that crap