Open mic nights / sit-in question

[SevenJacks]

Hey everyone,
I've been in my first band for about 4 months now, and it's paying gigs and really fun etc. I am a complete beginner, so I stand in back and keep my mouth shut and smile.

A while back the band leader (guitarist/singer) brought me to an open mic he spent years playing at. It was a great time and we listened to some good stuff. We didn't play, just had some drinks and talked.

At this open mic was some bass player who is supposed to be amazing. I had never heard him before and I don't think he plays out because he's so difficult to work with. Halfway through the evening he goes up with his drummer friend and they play along with a young kid (I'm 41 so that's my reference) they don't know, who is playing 3 original songs.

It was so incredibly awful. It really was. I'm such a beginner I don't even know the correct terminology for missed notes, dead spots, off time etc. I'm watching this guy thinking "am I missing something because I'm a newbie?"

So my question: Would any of you sit in with someone you just met who would be doing original stuff or covers you don't know? The very thought of doing that terrifies me.
Watching that just shocked me because I expected a 'good' bass player to be able to pull it off. Now I have no idea... It now seems to me that a 'good' bass player would say "I don't know your stuff and I think I would butcher it, but thanks for the offer."

[jackall237]

Absolutely.
You don't know how bad the good stuff is until you experience the bad stuff.. If just makes you appreciate the good that much more.. haha
But for real, I like to have a bit of a plan if I'm giong to play an open mic. Outside of ad libbing or "vamping" on a song, I like to share a common knowledge of the song..
That's hilarious, thanks for sharing!

[Phalex]

Covers with someone I don't know? Absolutely! That's a gas!

Originals? Not if I never heard them.

I tried the original song jam once. Once. As near as I could tell, the guy just kept grinding out random chords at random times.

[prd004]

Sitting in on original music is dicey. Sure if it's simple three chord catchy Tom Petty-ish stuff, you can pull it off and even make it sound good, but if it's more complex than that and you don't know where the changes are, what they are going to be, feel, timing, dynamics, etc. I wouldn't want to perform my music in front of a crowd with random people sitting in no matter how good they were, it would sound awful.

[Ric5]

I've done a lot of open mic open jam stuff ... I am willing to try any song whether I know it or not. I am a very experienced bass player, I pick things up quickly and I am good at faking stuff. Sometimes it is magical and wonderful, and sometimes it is an awful painful mess. You never know what you will get. That is also part of the fun.

[SevenJacks]

It's funny, right after I made this post, I saw the sticky about 'jam session etiquette'. Safe to say the guy I witnessed doesn't belong to this forum, or at least never read that thread!

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by SevenJacks

Would any of you sit in with someone you just met who would be doing original stuff or covers you don't know?

No.

And you just got a first-hand demonstration as to why it's not such a good idea. Like the bass player you mentioned, I've been playing professionally for 35 years, and I have a pretty good reputation in my community. I would never risk a thing like that.

Talent and common sense are two different things.

[Downunderwonder]

I'm usually already on the stage when the next artist pops up so they have already "auditioned" me so to speak. I just ask them what they are gonna do and if they "want bass with that?" but I'm making like I'm all set to take off so they aren't under pressure.

If it goes haywire I'll drop out, if I even got started. Sometimes it's them, sometimes it's me.

Usually it goes well enough to be enjoyable and sometimes it's blimmin' fantastic. Which more than makes up for the occasional trainwreck.

[velascorp]

There will be a time in your career when a person "sits-in " or you are at a jam.

The first thing to find out is the key . ( hopefully they'll know )

Second, get in position so you can see the players / newbie's hands. (if you can or can learn to "read " the chords of the gtr. or key player great....... so helpful):bassist

Third, let the song build. Take a pass / limit playing on the first verse and chorus then Bam .... watch the song grow as you get more familair with each time it comes around.

Also... LISTEN....BREATHE ... and SMILE.....you are NOT digging ditches.
good playing to everyone MV

[jaywa]

Originally Posted by SevenJacks

At this open mic was some bass player who is supposed to be amazing... I don't think he plays out because he's so difficult to work with.

This part cracked me up.

[rdwil191]

Originally Posted by SevenJacks

Hey everyone,
I've been in my first band for about 4 months now, and it's paying gigs and really fun etc. I am a complete beginner, so I stand in back and keep my mouth shut and smile.

A while back the band leader (guitarist/singer) brought me to an open mic he spent years playing at. It was a great time and we listened to some good stuff. We didn't play, just had some drinks and talked.

At this open mic was some bass player who is supposed to be amazing. I had never heard him before and I don't think he plays out because he's so difficult to work with. Halfway through the evening he goes up with his drummer friend and they play along with a young kid (I'm 41 so that's my reference) they don't know, who is playing 3 original songs.

It was so incredibly awful. It really was. I'm such a beginner I don't even know the correct terminology for missed notes, dead spots, off time etc. I'm watching this guy thinking "am I missing something because I'm a newbie?"

So my question: Would any of you sit in with someone you just met who would be doing original stuff or covers you don't know? The very thought of doing that terrifies me.
Watching that just shocked me because I expected a 'good' bass player to be able to pull it off. Now I have no idea... It now seems to me that a 'good' bass player would say "I don't know your stuff and I think I would butcher it, but thanks for the offer."

Watching this one with anticipation for advice. I'm kinda in the same boat, except my gig is not "payed" in money, as I play in church, it is, however, exceptionally spiritually rewarding! I've been playing bass a couple years, practice a couple nights a week with my "side project" bandmate..it's a 2 man group...yeah, trying to pull this off is gonna be a challenge. We play covers, sometimes acoustic, mostly electric, not mostly mainstream songs, everything from early Beatles to Alice in Chains. btw, we have you beat as older newbies...i'm 48 & my bandmate is 57...ha ha! After a year & 1/2 of practice, we are now gonna try & do some open mic nights. I'm not terrified, but I don't want us to go up there & be "that guy" or "those guys" like the bassist you described. To answer your question, no I wouldn't play with him, and would probably give the same answer as you. I hope some ''seasoned" musicians can give some better/different advice. Best of luck to you! Rob

[viper4000]

Short answer...Yes

Of course you never know what the conversation was between the 3 before they went on. Maybe the "good" bass player gave a fair warning that it might not go over well and the song writer didn't care. I would definitely do this, but there would be a pow-wow beforehand noting chords and changes. Cheat sheets are not a "no-no", so if I have to glance at the changes, I'm good with that. I just get a rush playing with new folks and the uncertainty of it all.

As a newer player, you'll find you get a lot out of playing in situations like this. Experience is always a good thing, whether that experience shows you what "to do" or "not to do". YMMV

[James Judson]

Originals, yes. Covers are defined and some if not all the audience may know the song. Originals on the other hand can be butchered to your hearts content cuz there is no wrongs.

I hate jams for different reasons. 1. the PA always sucks 2. all songs turn into 12 bar shuffles.

If you won't play something new cuz your afraid of butchering it, then you are not advancing as a musician.

YMMV

[electracoyote]

Wow, I'm a little surprised how many people think public humiliation is a good learning tool.

In a more private setting, sure, go for it.

But risking embarassing yourself in front of a roomful of strangers, some of whom may remember your name, face, and, um, performance?

You can see the impression this bass player made on OP.

No thanks.

[RustyAxe]

Originally Posted by SevenJacks

So my question: Would any of you sit in with someone you just met who would be doing original stuff or covers you don't know? The very thought of doing that terrifies me.

I do lots of open mics (networking, y'know). I play acoustic guitar, sing, and play bass (a/e bass guitar and upright). I'm considered a solid player, and play plenty of gigs as a sub, and in three different projects. First off, I don't play bass for anyone unless I'm specifically asked. People who know me and know that I know the material nearly always ask. Often, someone will hear a set and ask me to accompany them. My first question is "what are going to play?". In the past, I might do familiar covers. Originals? No way. Even old familiar covers can get a bassist in trouble. It IS an open mic, and honestly, there are some pretty shabby players who show up. I've been involved in more than one train wreck on an open mic stage where I was rolling my eyes and wishing god would take me home ... now! In general if I know don't the person, or song, I demure ... politely ... telling the performer I don't want to mess up a set.

Watching that just shocked me because I expected a 'good' bass player to be able to pull it off. Now I have no idea... It now seems to me that a 'good' bass player would say "I don't know your stuff and I think I would butcher it, but thanks for the offer."

Yep, that's the correct response. Even a good bass player can't help a poorly written, poorly performed original or cover.

I don't do many bar open mics these days. I prefer listening rooms. In bars, I've had occasion to "throw" uninvited players off the stage during my open mic acoustic performance. Harmonica players, bongo/conga/cajon players, singers who think they can add some harmony. I've stopped mid-song, and asked them to sit down. Really. One night there was a guy with a keyboard in the audience ... he started playing along. I stopped, and asked him if he was on "the list", because he might sound better on stage ... when his turn comes.

I work hard to write, arrange and perform my material. It's my right to present it as I rehearsed it, not chase some wanker around the scale for four minutes.

[lsabina]

Originally Posted by electracoyote

Wow, I'm a little surprised how many people think public humiliation is a good learning tool.

But risking embarassing yourself in front of a roomful of strangers, some of whom may remember your name, face, and, um, performance?

Worked for Charlie Parker.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by lsabina

Worked for Charlie Parker.

An innovative soloist.

Anyone who thinks they can transform a genre by losing control at an open mic, go for it.

Us mere mortals playing bass in a support role will play our cards a little closer to the chest.

[Passinwind]

Originally Posted by SevenJacks

So my question: Would any of you sit in with someone you just met who would be doing original stuff or covers you don't know?

Happens all the time if you're in the house band at an open mike.

Originals, absolutely yes. The audience typically doesn't have much to compare it to, so you have a little more slack in some ways, but I don't really worry about audience reaction that much at open mics. At least out here, they have seen me play enough to realize what I can and can't control.

Covers I don't know? Maybe, depends if I like the tune and how savvy the players are about cues, charts, etc. I've gone in blind on jazz gigs and sit-ins many many times -- in my world it's just expected that you can hang in those situations. It's not always pretty, but the really great moments more than make up for it, for me.

What you saw is partly the reason I am not doing the house bassist thing any more though.

[hennessybass]

YES!

It's one of the best exercises you can do as a bass player. It will teach you to listen to the changes and react. This is real ear training. At first, just listen to the song, get the changes down - play root notes, whole and half notes. After once through the verse and chorus, maybe you add a little bit of flavor. Keep it simple and listen!

Phalex said someting about doing this once with a guy who was just grinding out random chords... don't play with people like that! THAT guy didn't know what he was doing, and made the bass player look bad in the process.

There are rules, and the more you do this you will learn them. Also, if the guy singing is worth a damn, he won't leave you hanging. This is where you find out about good Band Leaders. The good ones will keep it simple (I IV V) for you until they know what you are capable of. Good band leaders will look at you, communicate, flash you numbers of upcoming changers, etc... They should tell you a feel and key before you start - "it's a shufel in G and does the turnaround twice at the end of every verse." The ones who just get a band up there and do there own thing and leave the band hanging are not the good ones you want to be playing with.

This kind of stuff can be very intimidating, but do it. You will learn so much! This is one of the best ways to get good, and an open mic like the one you described is the perfect place to do it.

Remember, music is not like a painting or a novel... it's an art that exists in one brief moment, and then it's gone. You might feel worried or embarrassed about a mistake, but if you nail the ending, no one will remember that note you missed in the second chorus!

[hennessybass]

Originally Posted by electracoyote

But risking embarassing yourself in front of a roomful of strangers, some of whom may remember your name, face, and, um, performance?

Don't worry about that. You remember the bass player because you are a bass player and were listening and watching. No one else in the audience remembers... and so what if they do. Do better next time and then they will remember that.

Don't worry about your ego or looking cool... worry about becoming the best bass player you can, and when you are playing awesome shows with an awesome band, that stranger from the coffee shop who was there that time when you missed a change will just be a distant memory!!