Organize Musicians for better $$

[billoetjen]

Thinking of starting a local musician's organization here because, well, you can figure out why.
Here's my basic plan (and it's pretty simple):
We know that the club owners are in collusion. So we start an organizing drive. Set a minimum $$, based on venue size. Anyone who signs a union card is guaranteed the minimum $, and can't play for less. Everyone else is a scab. Have an exception for benefit shows. Draw up a standard contract for all club owners. Any club that books scabs gets picketed.

That's it.
I'm not thinking of anything national; just in my turf. The scene here is abominable. It's probably just as bad most everywhere. Why not stick together so we can all benefit?

I'd like to know who else has done this.
I did a cursory search but didn't find anything matching so I'm starting this thread.

[Stick_Player]

You are wasting your time.

You live in the democratic socialist hot bed, right? Call Bernie Sanders.

Unions are over and done with.

[BryanM]

Would the union be supported by dues? If so, there lies a flaw in your plan that outlying musicians who don't make their living doing this might not be able to afford to maintain an active membership from year to year or not feel inclined to do so for the 1 or 2 pickup gigs at their local watering hole with friends. Because of this they become pariahs in the local music scene. It could be a good idea but you would have to take a lot of time and care working out the bylaws so that it doesn't just benefit musicians in your particular situation. I know I've played shows for less than I'm worth as a musician because I was with an act that was working towards more recognition, and if I'd have passed on those opportunities I never would have been able to network like I did. This could also lead to club owners colluding to hire out of town talent only or book DJs instead of live bands. Be careful not to open up a can of worms.

[seanm]

Is there not a local chapter of the AFM in your area?

[billoetjen]

Thanks for the thoughtful feedback.
Gratis, no dues. The consequences (a picket line) is aimed only at the clubs, not fellow musicians. VT has been a catalyst for positive change going on 40 years now. Could be the size of the place is "just right." Something has to be done. This crap is unsustainable.

[billoetjen]

SeanM, thanks for the suggestion. I looked at the AFM long ago as a vehicle for this. The AFM is so far out of the realm of what I'm considering as to be moot. This is Grass Roots, like home-grown.
I seriously doubt that they would care about, or be effective on the scale that I'm thinking.

[modulusman]

It isn't the bar owners who are at fault. It is the loser/idiot musicians who will play for free or cheap just to get stage time. I suggest you find these bands and break their arms so they can't play. Problem solved.

[Stick_Player]

It isn't the bar owners who are at fault. It is the loser/idiot musicians who will play for free or cheap just to get stage time.

Absolutely correct.

And it's the same "loser/idiot" musicians that illegally download music.

They've done it to themselves.

Oh, and also add in, the bar/club clientele don't give a hoot either.

[REAPER52]

I applaude your idea. I have been a union man for 40 years. The unions in this country are at the lowest -ever. The shame of it is that when unions are at peak so is the country. our fathers were the ones that stood out in rain and cold to man picket lines. So the companys ,instead of giving them a fair wage for a fair days work, just started sending products overseas. The other side of that coin is that some of the union demands were just stupid. I still believe in unions -but i fear its a thing of the past. I hope you the best -but your going to have a hell of a time doing it.

And if you do have dues --get a lawyer - lots of gov rules about unions

[billoetjen]

Originally Posted by modulusman

It isn't the bar owners who are at fault. It is the loser/idiot musicians who will play for free or cheap just to get stage time. I suggest you find these bands and break their arms so they can't play. Problem solved.

+1
But I'm already dicey here for expressing my frustration inappropriately. Much as it would be very gratifying to play that one out, I must advocate peaceful means.

[billoetjen]

Originally Posted by Stick_Player

Oh, and also add in, the bar/club clientele don't give a hoot either.

Well, that's where geography and demography are factors that could work in favor here in the Soviet People's Republic of Vermont. All these prog-heads and wool-hatters (read: trustafarians) are going to have to explain themselves crossing a picket line. Better chance of it happening here than in, say, Tallahassee.

[Graham Monette]

Its not going to work. Musicians and bands all draw different sized groups. Having a flat rate will kill up and coming musicians that people want to see, much like that said flat rate will be quite a turn off for a horrendous band/musician that so happens to be part of the union.
Its not like a trades job where as a team of journey man plumbers will have similar skills.

There are FAR too many variables to make any union work, and I can really see this hurting the local music scene.

[billoetjen]

Actually, folks, I just came up a with a much better, and simpler idea. No cards, no dues. In fact, it doesn't technically even need a single musician to get involved. Bands don't have to concern themselves with the fight, or with getting blacklisted. I will begin immediately to explore this and let y'all know how it goes.

[Mike N]

You may wind up cutting your own throat. Bar owners are only going to pay X amount for a band, and if you demand Y amount the owners might just tell you to go fly a kite and hire a disc jockey instead, potentially giving you less and less places to play, as well as no money. Everyone has a bottom line, club owners included.

Now without completely de-railing your thread, give me an idea of your situation....... what type of band (original, cover, wedding, etc..) type of gigs and what you're getting $ wise now, and what you think you should be getting $ wise. As much as the average bar band (if this is your situation) would like to earn megabucks, the reality is it isn't going to happen.

[CBRXJ]

Or you could focus on reasons why the bar owner NEEDS YOU as opposed to someone willing to work for peanuts.

[Mike N]

Originally Posted by CBRXJ

Or you could focus on reasons why the bar owner NEEDS YOU as opposed to someone willing to work for peanuts.

Presumably to drive business in to their bar, to drink their booze.


Still, no matter what business it is there are always those willing to work for less, be it a musician, an auto mechanic, snow plowers, landscape contractor.............

[billoetjen]

This isn't about me anymore.
This is about all of us. And, by the way, I hold the club owners at least as responsible for the situation as I do my fellow musicians.
When I get down to it, I play because I love it. I love the challenge, I love the high. I totally understand why many, many of us play or free and watch the dough spilling into the cash registers. I'm thinking in terms of minimum amounts that we'd demand for every band that plays. Nickels and dimes, when you think about it. Not even enough to cover gear.

[Stick_Player]

I hold the club owners at least as responsible for the situation as I do my fellow musicians.

If that were true beer, liquor and dancing girls would also be free. They're not.

[billoetjen]

Fact.
Back in the 80's, every club, small or medium in the Burlington area paid more $ than is paid today. And that's not adjusted for inflation.
Fact.
About ten years ago, the club owners got together in a local trade association, specifically so they could deal with live music. They never revealed what they discussed, but I'd bet my Ric that they colluded.
Fact.
I hear lots and lots and lots of grousing here (TB) about the $$ situation for live music. But if I think I've got a simple, sellable, and novel idea to address it and improve the lot of musicians, not one person has a positive contribution.
Wow.
If that's the spirit of activism today, then we've got one more reason to really miss the 60's.

[73jbass]

You can set whatever minimum pay you want,the bars don't have to pay it. So,unless you can justify why your band is worth the pay you set,you'll not be playing out very much.