Plastic and 2 rusting screws. Bargain at $215 dollars!

[Joel S.]

Originally Posted by rogerbmiller

I am on the seller's side. The fact is that there are a lot of people out there who have somehow come to the belief that older Fenders are the holy grail of basses (not to be irreverent) and that nothing comes close.

Truth is, I grew up playing bass is the so called Fender Dark Ages (the early 80's) when that company was hanging by a thread becuase:

1) they had not come up with a new design since the 50's (literally)

2) their construction and quality had not changed since the 50's

3) a lot of basses came out with more features and higher quality construction

So if you had an old Fender bass, you didn't put it in a hermedically sealed case and pray to it, you swapped out the PUs for DiMarzios and changed the hardware, gort a refret, etc. That is why there are so many vintage spare parts floating around. They sucked and no one wanted them.

To this day, if I need a "Fender P Bass" I play one of my Matsumoku copies which were far and away improvements of the original P bass. Same for a Jazz gig. Was my Fernandes J copy until it got stolen last month.

Let's get real. Only through Fender's mass marketing of nostalgia and retail market domination throgh buying and burying competitors and the consolidation of retailers by Guitar Center were they finally able to turnaround their image. And still with limited to zero innovation-- they just reproduce replicas of older models or replicas od older models as modded by artists cause the original vintages were crap stock (e.g. the Marcus Miller signature bass).

This is akin to Harley Davidon's comeback as a brand. They are marketing nostalgia and lifestyle more than quality and substance. Harley's motorcycles then and now are as primative compared to today's rides as Fender basses then and now are compared to today's basses.

So the douchebags are these miserable trendy dweebs who go pluck down $15K for an all stock vinatge 62 jazz bass or $500 for a spare part.

The guy selling this is bringing to market what Fender has convinced the masses that they want and he is laughing all the way to the bank.

And his response to the "question" is precious.

So do the patriotic thing. Go buy a Japanese design-forward bass from the 80's or 90's.

Might as well toss classic cars in this argument as well. Similar things happened in the 70s and 80s as imports showed up that touted better reliability and gas mileage.

However, I'd gladly spend $40K on a classic Hemi powered Charger over spending $30K on a modern Hemi Charger. You can't deny that a modern Hemi is more efficient, comfortable and reliable than a classic (not to mention it has a warranty), but there's not a car fan on the planet who wouldn't pick a classic over a modern iteration of the Charger. It's more than what the item is made out of, classic items have stories to tell, they strut their stuff in a different way than modern items, they're lovingly crude and imperfect. It's like your grandparents, sure they may smell funny, call you nicknames you hate, and can't figure out how to turn on a computer, but they have their own little quirks and stories to make you cherish their company.

That said, there is no excuse for some of the crazyness seen on the vintage market, but to suggest that all vintage instruments are overpriced hunks of crap is ridiculous. Sure the 80s instruments might have been garbage, but it's easy to argue Fender began a slow decline after the company was bought by CBS in 65. They obviously didn't know anything about instrument manufacturing.

P.S. Personally, I'd rather an 08 American Standard than drop whatever on a classic. I'd rather my instrument create it's stories with me.

[rogerbmiller]

I respect your argument and think it is a good one. But I think there are differences between that comparison and what we are bantering about.

In the interest of full disclosure, my dream is to fly to India and buy and Ambassador, the national car which is essentially the same design and tech as a 50's Studebaker. As well, I collect vintage basses, just not vintage Fenders.

The differences between a classic car compared to a modern and a vintage fender compared to a modern are many.

With cars, the elders are more stylish (or at least completely different in style) and are designed in such a way that somply does not exist anymore. The larger bodies and grandiose curves have all been phased out due to economics, aerodynamics, etc.

With vintage Fenders, my contention is that there is no discernable difference between the old and new-- no change is style, etc., and if anything the new ones are better made thanks to cnc precision routing, etc.

My vintage basses of choice are Japanese basses form the 80's and 90's cause they were design forward, innovative, and had top-notch craftsmanship.

It is not a coincidence that they became my vintage of choice vause Fender bought many of them out of existence, and those that fizzled on their own were never replaced by like-minded companies because Fender so successfully marketed their old wares to the market.

When I bought a Jazz bass, I could have bought an old Fender but I chose a MExijazz instead cause it is the same bass with one less zero on the price tag.

Originally Posted by Joel S.

Might as well toss classic cars in this argument as well. Similar things happened in the 70s and 80s as imports showed up that touted better reliability and gas mileage.

However, I'd gladly spend $40K on a classic Hemi powered Charger over spending $30K on a modern Hemi Charger. You can't deny that a modern Hemi is more efficient, comfortable and reliable than a classic (not to mention it has a warranty), but there's not a car fan on the planet who wouldn't pick a classic over a modern iteration of the Charger. It's more than what the item is made out of, classic items have stories to tell, they strut their stuff in a different way than modern items, they're lovingly crude and imperfect. It's like your grandparents, sure they may smell funny, call you nicknames you hate, and can't figure out how to turn on a computer, but they have their own little quirks and stories to make you cherish their company.

That said, there is no excuse for some of the crazyness seen on the vintage market, but to suggest that all vintage instruments are overpriced hunks of crap is ridiculous. Sure the 80s instruments might have been garbage, but it's easy to argue Fender began a slow decline after the company was bought by CBS in 65. They obviously didn't know anything about instrument manufacturing.

P.S. Personally, I'd rather an 08 American Standard than drop whatever on a classic. I'd rather my instrument create it's stories with me.

[aborgman]

Originally Posted by rogerbmiller

With cars, the elders are more stylish (or at least completely different in style) and are designed in such a way that somply does not exist anymore. The larger bodies and grandiose curves have all been phased out due to economics, aerodynamics, etc.

With vintage Fenders, my contention is that there is no discernable difference between the old and new-- no change is style, etc., and if anything the new ones are better made thanks to cnc precision routing, etc.

So you would choose a fiberglass bodied Ford Cobra kit car over the real thing? It's basically the same argument.

There is no discernable visual difference between them - and the kit car is lighter, faster, better handling, has better brakes, is much more reliable... and costs 1/4 the price.

[rogerbmiller]

Just coming back to this post after a a while.

To your argument, vintage Fenders and new ones are both made of wood. SO I am not sure the argument is apples to apples.

Tell me that older Fenders were made of superior wood that would cost 10 times or more the cost of the wood used in today's Fender's and then you are on point.

When you are buying vintage Fenders, you are paying for some utility but mostly the cost is towards memorabilia and nostalga. It is a collectible, plain and simple.

Originally Posted by aborgman

So you would choose a fiberglass bodied Ford Cobra kit car over the real thing? It's basically the same argument.

There is no discernable visual difference between them - and the kit car is lighter, faster, better handling, has better brakes, is much more reliable... and costs 1/4 the price.

[gaunten]

@ his answer to the dude, that really pissed me off.
People who can't be humble for **** just because they have money (or at least claim they do) is really making me mad. think they're better people, HAH!

[Jonyak]

I don't care about his prices, even thought I think they are rediculous, but this guy is a real ******* and I would never buy a single thing from him.

go look at his comments from other sellers.

this guy is a real smug jackass.

[The Golden Boy]

Originally Posted by bradjonesbass

Even Leo said his later designs (music man/G&L) were vastly superior to the older ones.

For the same reason in press releases, a musician is ALWAYS releasing their best record ever that they had the best time making, and your current girlfriend/wife is the most beautiful, smartest, awesomest in the sack....

Originally Posted by Jonyak

I don't care about his prices, even thought I think they are rediculous, but this guy is a real ******* and I would never buy a single thing from him.

go look at his comments from other sellers.

this guy is a real smug jackass.

Do you think that possibly getting constantly pelted online by a bunch of people that don't have the appreciation for the things he appreciates/sells wouldn't trigger d-bag responses from anyone after a while?

Whether you like it or not- there's a world full of people that have different tastes and some of those people have more than enough money to indulge themselves. There's people that sit around in their massive houses with rooms filled with Star Wars toys or video games or baseball cards or guitars or whatever they feel like collecting.

If I were really rich and collected Star Wars toys, and I had a first edition Luke Skywalker action figure, but it was missing the little light sabre arm... I'd probably pay through the nose for it. And if I had a barely used/worn spare light sabre arm- I would charge through the nose with it. It's just a 2" long piece of plastic, but it's a 30+ year old piece of plastic that's from an iconic toy that *someone* is going to want. And want bad enough to pay through the nose for it.

Whether it's the unused ashtray for a 65 Mustang, trem bar for a 1964 Epiphone Wilshire, cape for the 1977 Darth Vader doll, keyboard for the 1982 Apple IIe, or Uncanny X-Men #166... those little things complete people's collections.

If you have an interest or collection... imagine you have people complaining about how stupid your interest or collection is and how much of an idiot you are for involving yourself and investing in your hobby...

[peaveyuser]

stupid thing is there is no guarantee its the real thing, I mean someone could easily make that.