a question on gigs...

dalconthenovice · #1 05-17-2010, 08:45 PM

so i've been in this band four about a year, and we've been doin incredible, we've played street fairs, some shows at college some clubs etc and its been pretty good, everyshow we've played in the last 6 months has blown people away and we are all incredibly talented musicians and i'm not even sayin that i've have gotten incredible compliments from established musicians in the seattle area

but heres the problem...

all of our gigs have been gigs where they were free, street fairs, clubs that we've had to PAY to be able to play, house shows, etc, we've made no money off of them, and our ultimate goal is to eventually be able to make a living off of our music, how do we go from puttin on rockin shows at street fairs to doin gigs where we got some dough?

before you say so, we are all about the music, or else we wouldn't have put up with this as long as we have

Joe Nerve · #2 05-17-2010, 08:56 PM

1 of 2 ways.

1. Play covers.

2. Get famous.

::::BASSIST:::: · #3 05-17-2010, 09:06 PM

Yes, you have to play covers.

You also just have not settle for playing for free.

Me: How much is the pay?

Them: How much do you charge?

Me: What's your budget?

When asking what their budget is you present them with an open ended question. I've had a few instances where they offered to pay more than what we usually required. If what they offer is too low, I often reply with: "We'll do our best to work within your budget, but we need "X" amount before we can consider playing this gig for you."

You have to stick to your guns. My band sometimes does play the odd gig for exposure for free, but generally we dont. If they dont want to pay us, we simply thank them for their time and move on.

modulusman · #4 05-17-2010, 09:20 PM

You won't get paid unless you ask. If your band is so awesome then you shouldn't play for free.

You should be all about the business not all about the music.

RobertPaulson · #5 05-17-2010, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Nerve

1 of 2 ways.

1. Play covers.

2. Get famous.

sad but true.

g&lplayer · #6 05-18-2010, 07:06 AM

Helps a lot if you have some sort of a recording to show places before they hire you. Unless you are REALLY well known sometimes paying a studio to just lay down one or two tracks can really pay off. If the recording is good enough, people will listen to it and realize you aren't the kind of group that plays for free.

plankspanker13 · #7 05-18-2010, 08:19 AM

Don't underestimate the power of a well-executed performance video either. Just make sure that it is not of your uber-best song, because you don't wanna give away all of the performance goods too soon. You want to be able to have your live performance be a smidge better than the video capture, and, if the crowd likes you, or the venue's till does well, everyone wins, and you get paying gigs.

Spraeg · #8 05-18-2010, 11:05 AM

Most of the time, starting out, you're not going to be able to charge a fee or request a guarantee unless you're touring or from a decent ways out of town. At best, you'll usually be offered a piece of the door or ticket sales, often times based on what your band brings in, after the club/promoter pays the sound guy, lighting guy, venue fees, etc... So if you want to make money, make sure people know who you are- promote, flyer, put up stickers, hand out sampler CDs, sell pre-sale tickets, do whatever you have to do to get people there to see YOU, not just there to drink/dance/whatever.

Mo'Phat · #9 05-18-2010, 02:12 PM

I'm assuming you've used all the free exposure and pay-to-play shows to increase your emailing list and fanbase. You have a dialed-in website (Myspace is sufficient, in most cases), solid recordings of your band, and some content.

I'm also assuming you've researched which clubs pay for talent that draws a crowd, and who the contacts are and the best ways to get in contact with them.

I'm also assuming you have the ability to ask other bands what they get paid, and how they went about getting that fee.

I'm assuming you know that most clubs won't pay you initially, or give you a Friday or Saturday night, unless they know you and know you can draw by promoting the ever-loving heck out of their club. Playing festivals or house parties does nothing to establish a relationship with a club.

...but I know what happens when I assume anything.

**251** · #10 05-18-2010, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalconthenovice

so i've been in this band four about a year, and we've been doin incredible, we've played street fairs, some shows at college some clubs etc and its been pretty good, everyshow we've played in the last 6 months has blown people away and we are all incredibly talented musicians and i'm not even sayin that i've have gotten incredible compliments from established musicians in the seattle area

but heres the problem...

all of our gigs have been gigs where they were free, street fairs, clubs that we've had to PAY to be able to play, house shows, etc, we've made no money off of them, and our ultimate goal is to eventually be able to make a living off of our music, how do we go from puttin on rockin shows at street fairs to doin gigs where we got some dough?

before you say so, we are all about the music, or else we wouldn't have put up with this as long as we have

Start by putting out a (e)mailing list sign up sheet. Club/Bar/Restaurant owners like to think you bring customers to them. Only concert promoters make an effort to fill a room. Start by cultivating a fan club.

Medford Bassman · #11 05-18-2010, 03:24 PM

I try to remember what they taught me in college (business major)...

If someone is willing to pay you $0, and you take it, then that is what you're worth.

If someone is willing to pay you $2000 and you take it, then that is what you're worth.

If you want promoters, clubs to take you seriously, you have to develop a business attitude. (assuming the music is all in order)

Far be it from me to say promoters can be unethical, but why would they pay you when you give it away for free?

Don't forget, the second word in the phrase, "music business" is business.

my $.02

carl h. · #12 05-18-2010, 03:32 PM

Do you really want to go into a business where people expect you to work for free?

You've played for free and gotten exposure. Time to stop the freebies and see if they still want you.

bound'n'blocked · #13 05-18-2010, 08:25 PM

This is an interesting thread. I've learned a bunch reading this.

The band I'm in played alot of freebies as well, mainly because we really werent in it to play full time, but had a pretty decent fanbase. We played the fair for free a couple of times, and after drawing a nice crowd we asked the next year to be paid (we were the ONLY band that played for free in the past). The didnt book us the year that we asked to be paid. I said fine.. F THEM! and didnt worry about it any more. But that same year, the sound company I work for was also providing sound. We were doing the "No Talent Talent contest" on Friday night, and bitching about the fact that there was no band. Slowly, each one of the members of my band wondered up, and we decided screw em, we're gonna play anyway. We got our gear out of the truck and set up and started playing (hey, we'd played for free in the past, why not do it tonight too!) The fair president came up to the sound guy and told him to keep us going, that the main event of the fair that night had somehow derailed and the had NO main event and people were pissed and wanted their money back. We ended up with a pretty decent crowd, and they payed us to play the next year! The fair president has never thanked us for saving them that night, but he knows he has to both book us AND pay us now.

BnB

**251** · #14 05-18-2010, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medford Bassman

I try to remember what they taught me in college (business major)...

If someone is willing to pay you $0, and you take it, then that is what you're worth.

If someone is willing to pay you $2000 and you take it, then that is what you're worth.

If you want promoters, clubs to take you seriously, you have to develop a business attitude. (assuming the music is all in order)

Far be it from me to say promoters can be unethical, but why would they pay you when you give it away for free?

Don't forget, the second word in the phrase, "music business" is business.

my $.02

Well said! 8-)

Marginal Tom · #15 05-18-2010, 08:50 PM

I'm willing to play for free at rehearsals, jam sessions, benefits, and the like. I'm willing to play for travel expenses to help out a friend. Otherwise, if somebody is making a profit, I expect to be paid. Depending on the gig, I may only make minimum wage for my time (travel, set up, play, tear down and travel) plus expenses. Or I may make several times that amount. So my "worth" is highly variable.

hrodbert696 · #16 05-19-2010, 05:35 AM

Not writing from experience - my band is just getting itself together too - but learning a lot from this and just thinking it through: If you want to make money playing, it is a business and you have to treat it as one. Seems to me that means your best bet is to work at leveraging those free street fairs into marketing for paid gigs. Don't play your full set at them, treat it as a preview of a bigger better show; pass out flyers with your website and any future (paid) gigs; sell or give away CDs. See if you can get people to give you email addresses so you can send them news of upcoming (paid) gigs. If they really do like you, some percentage of that fair crowd will show up when you play a bar, and then you can start telling bars how many extra customers will show up to hear you... and the business is rolling.

sevenyearsdown · #17 05-19-2010, 05:55 AM

Lots of good comments here.

One other thing - If you have a respectable following in your home town, don't play every weekend. You will lose your crowd in 6 months. And in an original band, draw usually equals pay since a lot of the time you are playing for a cut of the door.

caeman · #18 05-19-2010, 06:36 AM

Sometimes...sometimes, it is better to not turn what you love to do, into your job.

Just sayin'

Spraeg · #19 05-19-2010, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sevenyearsdown

Lots of good comments here.

One other thing - If you have a respectable following in your home town, don't play every weekend. You will lose your crowd in 6 months. And in an original band, draw usually equals pay since a lot of the time you are playing for a cut of the door.

+1

You really have to space your gigs out. Your initial draw will more than likely be your friends/family/girlfriends/boyfriends/co-workers, etc... They may come out to a big show if you really promote it, but if you play every weekend in-town, you will burn out your fan base, and rather than having everyone show up to the one show you do in town for that couple of months, they will be spread out over eight shows.

carl h. · #20 05-19-2010, 12:14 PM

Another thought for those considering going pro: There are new bands started up every day who will play for free for the exposure. Do you want to compete with that? Most guys hiring aren't fans, they want to turn a profit and don't care who brings the people in. New guys for free might not bring in much, but if their net is higher than a hired band, guess who will get asked back?