Red Flag on Drummer? (Monitor Requests)

jaywa · #1 02-24-2010, 11:06 AM

So we're soundchecking at my church a couple weeks ago and they get to the [new] drummer and ask him what he wants and I expect him right away to say, "bass". No, he asks for more acoustic guitar. So then they ask him, "anything else" and I figure he'll ask for bass. But he says, "I'll take some more electric guitar." One more time they say, "does that do it then" and he says, "oh yeah I need more vocals." And he was done. Didn't ask for bass in his monitor AT ALL.

I was incredulous. Are there really drummers out there who don't care if they can hear the bass or not? Apparently so...

DiabolicLow B · #2 02-24-2010, 11:13 AM

Yea, Lars Ulrich!

iamflea · #3 02-24-2010, 11:16 AM

I'm guessing from the fact he asked for "more" of all the rest that he already had everything through his monitor??

If that is the case maybe he had plenty of bass? If the sound techs are experienced they may have already boosted his bass levels?? Maybe he just preferred to have a "full" mix.

Either way if he can drum and holds his end of the bargain I really don't se what the problem is, we all have our own ways after all!

jaywa · #4 02-24-2010, 11:18 AM

We were having some trouble locking-in, that's why I was surprised he didn't ask for more bass. And cause virtually every other drummer I play with usually asks for more bass in his monitor.

actionpig · #5 02-24-2010, 11:19 AM

oh get over yourself lol.

jaywa · #6 02-24-2010, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionpig

oh get over yourself lol.

Yeah, he is a younger guy... maybe he's not as deaf (yet) as the salty old bar-band drummers I mostly play with!

Hayseed · #7 02-24-2010, 11:23 AM

Unfortunately, most church bands are a completely different animal and have been indoctrinated into the "worship formula" that really implies that the rest of the band is just there because the leader's Takamine doesn't "fill out the sound." The bass player's just there because the leader's Takamine doesn't have strings that low to play the bass root note.

I'm all for adopting a resolution to ban acoustic guitars from churches for a year. At least the songwriting would get out of the box.

jaywa · #8 02-24-2010, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayseed

Unfortunately, most church bands are a completely different animal and have been indoctrinated into the "worship formula" that really implies that the rest of the band is just there because the leader's Takamine doesn't "fill out the sound." The bass player's just there because the leader's Takamine doesn't have strings that low to play the bass root note.

I'm all for adopting a resolution to ban acoustic guitars from churches for a year. At least the songwriting would get out of the box.

Acoustic guitars can stay... but the capo has to go! It gets old playing songs in Bb or Db cause the singer of the week can't do it in the original key or the guitarist can only play C, G and D chords.

JMaris · #9 02-24-2010, 11:43 AM

I agree with jaywa our music leader was tuned down half a step when I came into the picture. I only had one bass at the time and so I asked him if we could tune to standard 440 and he said no. His excuse was that the singers couldn't sing the songs in the standard key. It was to high for them. Well a little later I find out that we have a subscription to a copywrite company and could use it to transcribe any song to any key. So I talked to him a few more times and he would come up with other excuses. Finaly I told him I was going to tune up to standard tuning and use the program to transcribe everything... Then the truth came out... He said that he liked playing "g" (because it is easier on him) and some songs were to high for the singers if they were in g. Finally got him to tune up and start using the program to transcribe... Now life's peachy!!!

jaywa · #10 02-24-2010, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMaris

Well a little later I find out that we have a subscription to a copywrite company and could use it to transcribe any song to any key.

We have one of those resources too. Funny thing is, every now and then it will miss transcribing one or two chords and when that happens you can wind up with some pretty wack progressions. Simplest and best solution always of course is to have players and singers who can render the song in its original key but with worship teams that is a very hit-and-miss proposition.

walker rosewood · #11 02-24-2010, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayseed

because the leader's Takamine doesn't "fill out the sound."

it's funny 'cause it's true.

superbassman2000 · #12 02-24-2010, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionpig

oh get over yourself lol.

lol good point

i'd say as far as locking in, maybe he knows (or thinks) you are more flexible at feeling the groove than the guitar player, and to make the song work he has to listen more to the least groovy player.

Based on personal experience, I can say that i have been in that situation where a player couldn't find the groove to save his life, with both keyboard players and guitar players, and even a drummer (not at the same time though!). and the only thing anyone else in the band could do is follow that player to make it work, which it did.

in church/worship music, the lyrics are number one, and if you aren't singing, you are supporting the singing, so you should ask for drums in your monitor if you need it--make it work

bassy7 · #13 02-24-2010, 12:02 PM

I don't want this come out the wrong way, as I don't know a thing about why you and the drummer are having trouble locking up. Is it you or him, or both of you causing this????

Take this for what its worth to you...
I've found that when I play with a drummer that I can't lock up with, that if I am to blame then I just keep trying harder to tighten up and figure what works with that drummer. However, if I feel that the drummer just can't keep time properly and does't have the feel.... I may just have to keep on treading along with someone else can stay in the pocket, whethere it keys or rythm guitar doesn't matter to me. It stinks to have to nearly ingore what the drummer is playing, being a bassist and all, but sometimes the drumming can literally just distract one from what the groove is supposed to be. I am sure most of us if not all have been there at one time or another.

jnuts1 · #14 02-24-2010, 12:08 PM

capo has to go? There are sooooo many singers that change keys on a whim without warning that you should really get used to it.

plankspanker13 · #15 02-24-2010, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayseed

Unfortunately, most church bands are a completely different animal and have been indoctrinated into the "worship formula" that really implies that the rest of the band is just there because the leader's Takamine doesn't "fill out the sound." The bass player's just there because the leader's Takamine doesn't have strings that low to play the bass root note.

I'm all for adopting a resolution to ban acoustic guitars from churches for a year. At least the songwriting would get out of the box.

This is probably more common in the more conservative "traditional" denominations. I've played with the Catholics and a non-denom both, and was able to cross-pollinate some repetoire between the two. Have to admit that the non-denom drew from a wide variety of sources to have a very modern sound that was all over the stylistic map, and rarely used acoustic guitar at all.

Hayseed · #16 02-24-2010, 12:26 PM

Nope it's the acoustic guitars that gotta go. Most "Christian" music has no variety in rhythm or melody because it's usually written by guys "up, down" strumming on their acoustics the only variety is when they feel all "modern" and go for that U2 or Hootie and the Blowfish feel that everyone loves so much.

Which begs the question: Where would "Christian" music be these days if there were no Hootie & The Blowfish?;-)

I led worship for 10 years with the Vineyard. I played a Ric 12-string. The pastor had "problems" with the different sound. Everyone else liked it and he finally gave in. This was back in the early 90's. I think I was the only WL in Southern California that didn't play or have an acoustic guitar in the band.

I would also play bass for other worship leaders... THAT was an eye-openin experience!LOL

plankspanker13 · #17 02-24-2010, 12:30 PM

Hmmmm, I'd throw DMB into that accusation/question, Hayseed.

whitedk57 · #18 02-24-2010, 12:30 PM

What really bugs me is our keyboardist who will start playing other songs in our repertoire but not on the set-list for that Sunday. I know they're in the same key as the previous song, but I usually need the chord chart to play along. I guess I need to "stretch" and adapt to this, but it's really embarrassing to have to stand there while the song plays.

As far as the OP's comments... I could care less what others have in their own monitors as long as I can hear the singer and the drummer - especially the bass drum.

standupright · #19 02-24-2010, 12:34 PM

man. i remember when i used to go to church and there was just a pipe organ player and a choir.

Hayseed · #20 02-24-2010, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plankspanker13

Hmmmm, I'd throw DMB into that accusation/question, Hayseed.

I don't know who DMB is but I'll take your word for it. I really insulate myself these days from things I know are gonna drive me batty!