The Right to Marriage???

cassanova · #1 08-23-2011, 07:02 PM

Do you think marriage is a right or simply a legal privilege that people assume is a right? (Loose Example: many people confuse the privilege of driving as it being a right to drive.)

steveksux · #2 08-23-2011, 07:07 PM

Doesn't matter which it is, everyone should have equal access to it even if its only a privilege. Should we be able to deny black people the privilege of driving since its only a privilege, and not a right?

Randy

chuck3 · #3 08-23-2011, 07:09 PM

Strange question, but I'll play. Legally, it's a right. If you don't think so, see what happens if a state enacts a law prohibiting marriage. That law would be overturned in the courts as unconstitutional, violating rights as to association and the exercise of religion (which, for many people, marriage is closely associated with).

**jmattbassplaya** · #4 08-23-2011, 07:12 PM

This should probably be in OT, and this is probably political.

Either way, our constitution protects people's privilege to marry which is why I don't understand how gay marriage hasn't been nationally legalized.

14th Amendment:
"1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

**colcifer** · #5 08-23-2011, 07:18 PM

OT, if not the Lobby.

Gaius46 · #6 08-23-2011, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveksux

Doesn't matter which it is, everyone should have equal access to it even if its only a privilege. Should we be able to deny black people the privilege of driving since its only a privilege, and not a right?

Randy

Actually it does matter. Privileges are granted by the state and the state can take them away at any time. Rights are inherent in people and cannot be taken away by anyone, though your ability to exercise your rights can certainly be suppressed.

Marriage in terms of two people being free to decide to share their lives is a right - both ethically and legally. The Constitution does not give the government the power to interfere in personal relationships.

The economic and legal advantages that come marriage can be revoked by the government. However, if the government is going to give economic advantages to one type of marriage it has to give those same advantages to all types of marriages as per the 14th amendment.

Samthebassist · #7 08-23-2011, 08:52 PM

This makes me so sad.
Unfortunately right now it's a privilege for some, not all. Should be a right.

I'm madly in love with my gf. I want to spend the rest of my life with her, grow old together, have kids.
You ever love somebody so much? With your whole heart and soul? And the place you live doesn't even recognize it. Almost the entire county where you live, doesn't recognize it. It's like my feelings dont exist. I'll be lucky if I get to be with her, legally, before we're 30. I'm not expecting much.

I've never loved someone like I love Erica. She is my everything. She's my support, my shoulder to cry on, my partner, and my love. She takes care of me when I'm sick, and she's not afraid to tell me to stfu and buck up. She sticks up for me when my parents (the people that are supposed to love me regardless) think I'm just faking it. She's amazing. She's not perfect, we're not perfect. But she comes damn close.

I'd give anything to be able to legally call her my wife. To wear the white gown and carry the beautiful bouquet, to hear the orchestra play as I get to walk down the aisle to the most gorgeous girl in the world. To be at the after party with a playlist of all our favorite songs, her dancing really great and me sucking as bad as I do.

People take all this for granted. And it's something we want...and may never have.

I love Erica and I want to make this happen. But right now America doesn't want us to. So we'll wait in patience like generations before us.

cassanova · #8 08-23-2011, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck3

Strange question, but I'll play. Legally, it's a right. If you don't think so, see what happens if a state enacts a law prohibiting marriage. That law would be overturned in the courts as unconstitutional, violating rights as to association and the exercise of religion (which, for many people, marriage is closely associated with).

Most states do prohibit certain types of marriages, primarily same sex ones. The courts have yet to overturn these laws as being unconstitutional in most of them

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

This should probably be in OT, and this is probably political.

Either way, our constitution protects people's privilege to marry which is why I don't understand how gay marriage hasn't been nationally legalized.

14th Amendment:
"1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

Agreed, another thing that doesn't make sense to me, and I find unconstitutional, is how states are allowed to violate the full faith and credit clause of the constitution. I know Florida and most other states will not recognize a same sex marriage, even if the people were married in a state where it is legal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samthebassist

This makes me so sad.
Unfortunately right now it's a privilege for some, not all.

This was what I was thinking too. If it were truly a right, then everyone would be allowed to do it.

skychief · #9 08-23-2011, 09:05 PM

Its complicated. It depends on how you define marriage. If you use a dictionary ("the institution whereby men and women are joined in a special kind of social and legal dependence for the purpose of founding and maintaining a family"), then marriage is a right. If you are a "progressive", then you may toss this definition and simply define it any way that suits your specific needs and desires.

kenfxj · #10 08-23-2011, 09:10 PM

The next good argument I hear against gay marriage will be the first.

eyeballkid · #11 08-23-2011, 09:12 PM

better question: "Does ANYONE have the right to tell you who you can marry?"

Whether its a right, a priviledge, or the magic conjuring of elves, the original question assumes that someone, I dont know who, has some kind of super authority to supercede your own will on one of the most meaningful and personal matters anyone can decide upon in their lives.

eyeballkid · #12 08-23-2011, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenfxj

The next good argument I hear against gay marriage will be the first.

LMAO!!!

hennessybass · #13 08-23-2011, 09:18 PM

you can't get married because you are different than me in some way = you can't drink out of the same water fountain as me because you are different than me in some way.

I have a dream...

**jmattbassplaya** · #14 08-23-2011, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skychief

Its complicated. It depends on how you define marriage. If you use a dictionary ("the institution whereby men and women are joined in a special kind of social and legal dependence for the purpose of founding and maintaining a family"), then marriage is a right. If you are a "progressive", then you may toss this definition and simply define it any way that suits your specific needs and desires.

Actually, most major dictionaries recognize gay marriage as a form of marriage under the definitional sense - you just have to read a few more sentences to see that

RustyAxe · #15 08-23-2011, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cassanova

Do you think marriage is a right or simply a legal privilege that people assume is a right? (Loose Example: many people confuse the privilege of driving as it being a right to drive.)

What the hell does this have to with playing bass?

Take your agenda elsewhere.

chris1125 · #16 08-23-2011, 09:38 PM

Bass humor and gig stories? Shouldn't this be off topic? I certainly wouldn't call it humor, there are a lot of people on both sides who take the issue very personally. I don't have a definate opinion on the issue but I do think if they are going to legalize it, they should do it across the board. Why should you be allowed to marry in one state but not another? Because some states are still run by conservatives unfortunately

cassanova · #17 08-23-2011, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris1125

Bass humor and gig stories? Shouldn't this be off topic? I certainly wouldn't call it humor, there are a lot of people on both sides who take the issue very personally.

I know it should be in OT. I obviously wasn't paying attention when I inadvertently posted it here. Once I noticed the foul up, I pm'd the mod's and asked them to move it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustyAxe

What the hell does this have to with playing bass?

Take your agenda elsewhere.

It has absolutely nothing to do with playing bass. Then again, a lot of threads on the site don't have anything to do with bass playing. I'm not pushing an agenda, I'm not trying to sway anyone's opinions about marriage. It's nothing more than a question asking if people feel marriage is a right or a privilege.

cassanova · #18 08-23-2011, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

Actually, most major dictionaries recognize gay marriage as a form of marriage under the definitional sense - you just have to read a few more sentences to see that

Definition 3 from m-w.com gives IMO, the best definition of what a marriage is. "an intimate, or close union."

Marriage - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Also want to point out, that gays are not the only ones denied marriage licenses. A professor once told me that severely mentally retarded people are denied them as well.

Which again, makes me question, if it can be denied it, is it a right or privilege? I'd have to lean towards privilege, because rights are something that cannot (in theory) be denied/taken away.

bassist4dalord · #19 08-23-2011, 10:05 PM

Kwesi · #20 08-23-2011, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skychief

Its complicated.

Not at all. Marriage is as much a "right" as anything else in the constitution -- a privilege allowed by the government that can be taken away at their decision. I personally believe, along with all the non-religious folks that I know as well as a good portion fo the religious folks I know, that absolutely everyone should have equal rights regarding marriage. Unfortunately, that is not the case now but it's only a matter of time so take solace in that. You are 18 (I say that as if I'm that much older that you, lol

), you've got time. Of course, there's always the option to move to a state where it is legal too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassist4dalord

canofworms.jpg

Vast exaggeration. I mean no disrespect to you or members of any other religion out there but the ONLY opposition to gay marriage comes from religious folks and a lot of them are starting to change their minds which is great! Again, it's only a matter of time and I'll be happy when that time comes.