Shame on you club owners!

Joeykun · #1 02-08-2010, 03:13 PM

What is it with club owners???? They want you to pack their club with people so they can just give the bands bare minimum pay. Bands work hard trying to get people out to clubs. We join every social network known to mankind; we update our MySpace pages, Facebook, send Tweets and even post local blogs to get people out. Not to mention the rehearsal time, learning of new material, buying equipment and of course the labor of love putting it all together.

Most clubs do nothing for advertising. They don't update their websites (if they even have one) or put on any specials events or radio remotes to promote their club. There is no real stage area, no lighting and barely enough electricity to run a complete band. Is 120 volts too much to ask??? They expect the band to do everything. Then, god forbid you have one of those nights where most of your fan base decides to stay home instead of going out, the club owners blame you and then short change you at the end of the night stating we didn't make enough money. Then drive off in their Benz. REALLY??????

What did they do to get people into their club??? Did they advertise? NO! Did they have or update social networks or websites? NO! Do they take responsibility for their lack of getting people into their own club? NO!

We are the ones that do all your advertising, put all the time, labor and sacrifice into the show and all you do is sit back and cry poor mouth when it comes time to pay up. Where would your club be without the help of us musicians dragging our fans in and advertising for you every weekend??? Do you do anything for your patrons to get them to come back. Surely, the attitudes that some staff members have wont.

It's time you take notice. There are plenty of real clubs out there that are willing to pay for us hard working bands to entertain THEIR crowd. Because they are business people just like us and know if they advertise, put on fun events and put some money into their club to accommodate for live entertainment, and treat their patrons right they will be successful and draw every weekend!

So, next time you want to short change a band because they didn't bring enough people in, take a look at yourself. Don't put the blame on us hard working bands. We do our part. Did you do yours? It is your club, take responsibility.

Shame on you club owners!

ataraxia · #2 02-08-2010, 03:34 PM

It keeps getting harder and harder out there for bands... especially original bands. Most clubs and bars out here in the NJ/ NY area require 20-100 tickets presold by the band (or for the band to purchase these tickets and cover any not sold) to play a show... often with little to no compensation for doing so.

How do you guys build a fan base if you can't get out to play because you don't have a fan base?

Does anyone from the NJ/ NY area have any suggestions for clubs or promoters that book original bands without having to have a big draw?

oggdawg · #3 02-08-2010, 03:37 PM

It's simple...if a club treats you poorly, stop playing there, and spread the word amongst other bands.

Vic · #4 02-08-2010, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oggdawg

It's simple...if a club treats you poorly, stop playing there, and spread the word amongst other bands.

That works great if you play in an area with an abundance of venues... unfortunately, I think that case is dwindling before our very eyes, and we're faced with, playing a club that tries to exploit bands unfairly, or don't play.

I suggest protection from mistreatment with contracts, and if the bar wants to play the "what if you don't draw" card, stipulate "vs the door", and MAKE SURE YOU HAVE SOMEONE TRUSTWORTHY MONITORING THE DOOR (or even better yet, running it, if the club will allow that.)

As stupid as it is, noting they'd only be improving their own income for doing so, we can't always rely on the club promoting the band properly, so we should just know that, and deal with it. Use our own web sites, make posters and hang them in the clubs ourselves, make table tents and do the same, etc., etc., etc..

This is a case where a little vigilance goes a long way towards making life better, and not suffering the jackassery of short-sighted idiots.

IMHO.

Lazylion · #5 02-08-2010, 07:47 PM

IME there are many club owners who are lousy businessmen, and many musicians who want nothing to do with the business side of things.

Vic · #6 02-08-2010, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazylion

IME there are many club owners who are lousy businessmen, and many musicians who want nothing to do with the business side of things.

+1

bassplayer8953 · #7 02-08-2010, 08:19 PM

There's a saying: It takes money to make money. Most bands know this. You buy equipment, pa, lights, posters, flyers, business cards, etc. as well as members invest their time to get their act right...in short, put out the effort.

Unfortunately, these days, the effort is seldom reciprocated by the club/owner/manager. They invest nothing. Maybe even try to charge you to play (there's another thread going on the ptp subject) Beat you over the head regarding your "draw". Yes, a band should have its fans...but a decent club will have some clientele also. It's no wonder, with the clubs collective lackadaisical attitude toward promotion, their clientele drys up, and only the bands followers show up. But this seems to be heading towards "the norm" these days, at least in my area...even for cover bands.

BTW...kinda ironic that this thread is in the Band Humor forum...IMO there's nothing funny about it...

Jason P Bass · #8 02-08-2010, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazylion

IME there are many club owners who are lousy businessmen, and many musicians who want nothing to do with the business side of things.

+1

It's easy to complain on Talkbass. It's something else to draw a crowd.

**T. B. Player** · #9 02-08-2010, 10:50 PM

Have you heard of the economy?

Bar owners may be bad business people, but if they're still in business in these times, they're doing something right. Unfortunately, many times that includes stiffing the band.

If you're that socially connected via social networking, record your stuff, put it on the web, sell it, find out who's buying it, and have your manager book concerts in small theaters - they're more fun anyway...people are there to hear you...not drink and hook up.

IME, When you're in a cover band playing in a bar, even if you think you're the show, you're background noise.

Z

Phalex · #10 02-09-2010, 06:49 AM

I must be the luckiest bassplayer alive!

We had one place that hired a new manager who wanted to "renegotiate" last year. He got all "take it or leave it" on us.

Sooooo....

While he was "Negotiating" the rates, our drummer booked 2010. We have a few new clubs paying us more than the old rate he wanted to renegotiate, and the guy freaked out when we told him the only date we had open this year was in October.

I have no idea why people are knocking down our door, but I'm enjoying riding the wave!

rtslinger · #11 02-09-2010, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ataraxia

It keeps getting harder and harder out there for bands... especially original bands. Most clubs and bars out here in the NJ/ NY area require 20-100 tickets presold by the band (or for the band to purchase these tickets and cover any not sold) to play a show... often with little to no compensation for doing so.

How do you guys build a fan base if you can't get out to play because you don't have a fan base?

Does anyone from the NJ/ NY area have any suggestions for clubs or promoters that book original bands without having to have a big draw?

Clubs that only have original bands need the bands fan base to make money period I have a friend who has a club for all original bands and with his lease,overhead and cost to run the business he barely feeds his family when all is said and done but, he is a music guy he was one of us and wanted to help original bands have a place to play and he does. And if they bring people out to hear music that they wrote great if they don't very bad for him. It is a tough road the original music business and as a long time rocker here is how it pans out You have to bring the people why? because it is your music and not everybody (sorry) is going to be into your stuff I have gone to his club and saw great bands with 0 following not cause they are new but they are different trying to be the next thing and I have seen garbage losers who couldn't play for shake! and have the place at standing room only why cause they have a lot of friends and if they do the band gets the gigs and the really talented band gets the crap end of the deal I can only suggest play some of your music and some songs people like to hear on the radio do the cover/ original thing till someone takes notice and if you are one of the one in million lucky ones you may hear you stuff on the radio someday welcome to the world of live music.what did I just say in closing build your fan base in cover clubs and move to all original clubs when you have the following that is a plan that works!

Lunchbox4u_6 · #12 02-09-2010, 10:18 AM

You know the saying "It's called showbiz, not showfriends"...that's what it is. If you want to make money as a gigging musician you need to realize that it's a business and treat it that way. Use contracts and booking agents. If a club owner doesn't want to sign a contract, screw him, you need to protect yourself. If a booking agent isn't getting the job done, fire him, he only makes money if you make money and if he doesn't understand that then he's probably in the wrong line of work.

Understandably, bar owners are trying to make a living, but so are we, and bar owners who are good business people will understand that.

levis76 · #13 02-10-2010, 11:22 PM

None of the local bars/clubs around the Metro Detroit area will touch a contract, especially on the eastside. Most of them don't pay the bands no matter what you draw, they figure your getting paid in 'exposure' or in the case of one club in particular, we get the privilege of playing on the same stage that many national acts play on. I don't care if Quiet Riot played there 25yr ago, I want my damn money. The few that do pay, don't pay much, maybe 25% of the door which wouldn't even cover the bar tab. This is absolute crap, but all the bars/clubs here do it, so the bands are kind of screwed. It's been a problem here for many years and I feel really bad for the younger bands that do work their asses off trying to get somewhere in a business that only appreciates image and marketability and ignores hardwork, dedication, and talent. As for my band, well we swore off playing at all but a few bars that enjoy having us and we do it for fun.

DizzyExiled · #14 02-11-2010, 12:43 AM

I love those owners/promoters out there who do the "% of sales if over 600 people" and constantly say "ohhh 580, sorry you just get the flat rate" meanwhile there are anywhere between 600 and 900 in attendance.

Jehos · #15 02-11-2010, 08:24 AM

God I'm getting old. Updating your social networking pages counts as hard promotion work nowadays?

NicJimBass · #16 02-11-2010, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jehos

God I'm getting old. Updating your social networking pages counts as hard promotion work nowadays?

That's what I was thinking.

Here's the deal- original bands don't pay for the most part. Cover bands do. That's why I stopped dreaming of making it with an original band after 3 years of traveling, starving and losing money, and joined a cover band. You don't have to draw many, if any people, you just have to entertain those in the joint, make em dance, and make em drink. Sure you have to learn more than 10 songs, but you get a nice paycheck at the end of the night, and go on your merry way.

AltGrendel · #17 02-11-2010, 08:54 AM

Most bars around here have gone strictly to DJ nights and karioki.

nortonrider · #18 02-11-2010, 08:57 AM

I look at it like this:
Good for you club owners!

I'm sure they are in the game to make money.

If you don't like what amount they are offering , don't play in their club.

nortonrider · #19 02-11-2010, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AltGrendel

Most bars around here have gone strictly to DJ nights and karioki.

One bar around here has recently went to "free Jukebox" on Friday nights.
Cheaper and easier than having a band, and people are still showing up.
I can't say as I blame them one bit.

pasta4lnch · #20 02-11-2010, 09:12 AM

fwiw the places we play have an abundance of nice owners. I know the stories - and I'm sure this is, to an extent, not common. All I can say is having owned a VERY simple food establishment once I can't imagine how hard it is to run a big place, so the owner could probably care less about your "issues". now screwing the musicians on a negotiated thing is wrong for sure! and being cheap w/ drinks and such sucks too

but we negotiate everything before hand (drinks, food, $$ etc), show up on time, do our thing and clean up after ourselves. we've never had any complaints or nasty owners. if the deal sucks we don't go back. in fact we just played a place Monday (MONDAY!!) that wanted us back again before we ever played there - I'm assuming by reputation.