She offered us $420 cash to play Freebird!

[SteveC]

This can't be real. No band with ANY sense would turn down $400 to play any song. Hell, I would have thrown Mustang Sally and Brown Eyed Girl for free.

[MysticMichael]

Originally Posted by electracoyote

Considering how people go off the deep end with cliches like "human jukebox" and making this an "ethical" debate, there's really no point.

It's not a question of "ethics". It's a question of aesthetic cohesiveness - or lack thereof. They're not the same thing.

Originally Posted by electracoyote

There are many shades of grey here, but we all know it when we see the cover band that is obviously not in it to entertain and has put their priorities a little too much above the audience's. In my neck of the woods, those bands have trouble getting booked at the better rooms.

So long as you continue to insist upon defining "entertain" or "entertainment" in the same narrow, exclusive terms, this issue will continue to defy clarity. I've already demonstrated how it applies much more broadly than the singular way in which you've characterized it. I stand by my initial argument.

Originally Posted by electracoyote

So, getting back to this argument about "integrity," should I feel I have more integrity playing a deep cut the drummer picked, that hardly anyone in the audience knows or remembers, and neither do I? Or would I have more integrity playing a song I know has a high appeal rate to the average bar patron?

Originally Posted by electracoyote

I fail to see how a band that does obscure and less familiar or recognizeable music the majority of the night has more "integrity," and a band that chooses it's covers for audience appeal has less "integrity."

If anyone in this thread has characterized the issue as one of "integrity", I must have missed it. Unless someone has done so - and you're replying primarily to him - it would seem that you're setting up a straw man here.

MM

[SBassman]

A cover band has to be Stoooopid to not take that money.

And young. And, did I mention - Stoooopid.

Anybody who has lived a few years on the planet would know better than to leave that money on the table.

Stooooooooooopid.

[theduke1]

Originally Posted by SBassman

A cover band has to be Stoooopid to not take that money.

And young. And, did I mention - Stoooopid.

Anybody who has lived a few years on the planet would know better than to leave that money on the table.

Stooooooooooopid.

+1
That is more money to play one song then my last band was paid for the whole gig!
To those guys I say" Nice Going Dumb !@#)

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by RonniePudding

The issues people here seem to be having with this are centered around the concept of ego/humility...

1) Was the woman requesting the song trying to humiliate the band?
2) Does the band see certain songs or types of music (and therefore the people who like them) as "beneath" them?
3) Does refusing a big wad of cash for an inconsequential amount of "work" (whether for aesthetic or practical reasons) mean that the band is egotistical and disrespectful of their audience?

To which I say:
Y'all are overthinking this. She requested "Freebird" for gosh sakes! So long as the band responded politely (which is what the OP said), I don't see what all the fuss is about. It's just a funny story.

1. No.

2. Apparently they do.

3. Somewhat, yes, unless of course they just plain don't know the song...doesn't sound like it to me, though.

[SBassman]

Originally Posted by theduke1

+1
That is more money to play one song then my last band was paid for the whole gig!
To those guys I say" Nice Going Dumb !@#)

Yeah, that's a nice pile of money.
You better believe we'd play it. And I Hate that song.

That's just Stoooooooooooooooooooooooopid.

This has to be a band of 17 year olds where all their equipment was purchased by mama and da-da.

[lowfreqgeek]

Originally Posted by MysticMichael

Now there's an idea: Extort money from the audience by threatening to play Freebird - unless they come up with enough cash to persuade you to NOT do it!

I used to play with a now deceased singer who had a strong following of mostly well-off retiring baby boomers. One in particular did not like Lyle Lovett's If I Had A Boat and would often drop a $20 in the jar just so that we *wouldn't* play it. This was after he'd already dropped another $20 in after requesting one of his favorites.

[RonniePudding]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

1. No.

2. Apparently they do.

3. Somewhat, yes, unless of course they just plain don't know the song...doesn't sound like it to me, though.

Those were supposed to be rhetorical questions. My point was that folks seem to be taking this far too personally without actually knowing the context.

Just as a for-example:
Lets say you have a band that plays old timey bluegrass and honkey tonk type numbers, and you have a following that shows up regularly and pays a cover fee to hear that type of music. Then some drunk wanders in and starts requesting southern rock and pop-country. Would you (as a number of people have suggested) take the drunk's money, play the [bad] songs [poorly and/or repeatedly] and thereby disrespect everyone else in the audience? That's not being an "entertainer", it's selling out. And for those who are presuming that the band in question doesn't know the value of money -- isn't it possible that the better financial decision was to keep the long term gig, rather than risk losing it for a quick $400.

IF the band was disrespectful to the audience then I don't condone that. IF the majority of the audience wanted to hear Skynrd and the like, and the band refused out of spite/superiority, then that's lame also -- and I'm sure they won't be rehired if that's the case. But from the information provided, it's not obvious that it went down like that.

[sgiacomo]

The band and hiring manager are free to choose of course. Money and musical ability aside, if it is about bad songs or dislike of selling out then by all means let us explore that fundamental purist view of our trade/hobby. Fundamentally, music conveys messages, emotions, moods, memories, etc. with poetic words, musical intonation and timing. Without that, we are producing nothing but words and sounds with a predefined wavelength/frequency and timing that are boring at best. Songs like Freebird may be cliche for many, but songs like these often mean so much more to others. Suppose you were just out of high school when your friend was killed in an unfortunate hunting accident by another good friend of yours. One of the "six pack" gone forever, rest in peace my friend, you are free as a bird now. Suppose a song like Freebird was played at your good friends funeral because he loved it and you all have fond memories of WW and his favorite song, however corny or cliche. Suppose your living friend is devastated, haunted by memories for the rest of his life of such a tragedy. Suppose this man requests this song in honor of his friend. If you don't care about a song having a deeper meaning for people other than yourself, then why bother playing for other people? You may play music, but you are not a musician. You might as well be a circus act because it sure isn't about the music. True story of 20 years ago last month. This is why I got off my high horse about songs that are unworthy, because it isn't all about me. Peace.

[xring]

I'd have played the hell out of it for 420. I'd be honered to play RUSH tunes all night long. You must be really bad ass to think you're so above the best Canadian band to have ever existed.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by MysticMichael

If anyone in this thread has characterized the issue as one of "integrity", I must have missed it. Unless someone has done so - and you're replying primarily to him - it would seem that you're setting up a straw man here.

You must have missed it indeed. And I was replying not only to "him," but to "them." Reading threads carefully is highly recommended. Let me help you out:

Originally Posted by DblG

That's great! Never seen that before...fantastic. Betcha those guys weren't worried about their reputation or integrity!

Originally Posted by SactoBass

Biggbass, you just pegged the needle on the respect meter! You are a man of principle! Again, kudos to Biggbass for not selling out! High five!!

Originally Posted by DWBass

All artist integrity gets thrown out the window. You play what ya gotta play!

Originally Posted by PrietoBass

Or, these are men of integrity, and they've taken a solemn oath to never, ever, play that song...

Originally Posted by MysticMichael

So long as you continue to insist upon defining "entertain" or "entertainment" in the same narrow, exclusive terms, this issue will continue to defy clarity.

Narrow definition? You can peel your nose off the ceiling now, there seem to be many of us who share my definition of entertainment, even though I'm man enough to admit there are various interpretations of the word, all valid. Again, for your convenience:

Originally Posted by JohnMCA72

Sure showed her! Who the heck do some people think they are, expecting to be "entertained"?! Don't they know that it's all about the musicians????!!??

Originally Posted by Steve Dallman

This whole music thing is supposed to be entertainment.

Originally Posted by jnuts1

"But not all musicians would agree that entertaining and pleasing the audience is the priority for a cover band."

i just don't understand this statement at all, that is the exact reason coverbands exist, get in an original project if that is not your "goal"

Originally Posted by throughthefire

You should remember that in a bar, you're an entertainer, not a musician. Play the song, close your ears, and take the money.

Originally Posted by SactoBass

My opinion of what coyote was saying is, some players are in cover bands because they just enjoy playing that music, and audience entertainment may not be their primary priority

But here's my bottom line, which I'm sure you missed as well:

Originally Posted by Factor88

That being said, I agree that this is your band's decision, and I won't take the extra step of being critical of it.

And neither will I.

Originally Posted by electracoyote

And it's not a matter of right or wrong. It's only a matter of what's right or wrong for you as a musician, and your band.

As astounding as OP's claim is to many of us, and for a variety of reasons, none of us are in any position to do anything about it, and we're just expressing opinions here. No sense singling people out and challenging them to a duel.

Right?

[SactoBass]

Originally Posted by xring

I'd have played the hell out of it for 420. I'd be honered to play RUSH tunes all night long. You must be really bad ass to think you're so above the best Canadian band to have ever existed.

Maybe I missed it, but where in this thread did someone say something about not wanting to play RUSH songs?

Are you perhaps confusing Freebird with Freewill?

[bassramos]

Freebird is a great song. Should have played it. It doesnt have the cooties.

[sgiacomo]

Originally Posted by SactoBass

Maybe I missed it, but where in this thread did someone say something about not wanting to play RUSH songs?

Are you perhaps confusing Freebird with Freewill?

Page one third reply.

[xring]

My mistake. Yeah, post #4. Flying through the thread, thought it was the OP.

[SactoBass]

Originally Posted by xring

My mistake. Yeah, post #4. Flying through the thread, thought it was the OP.

Ah yes, post #4. (thanks xring and sg).

I guess he just isn't a Rush fan. That's cool. We each have a right to choose what we like. I'm not a Skynyrd fan.........no biggie.....just personal choice.

[FrenchBassQC]

This did not happen, he's doing a degree on socialogy and he has lots to use with all there is in here let me tell you...

[SactoBass]

Originally Posted by FrenchBassQC

This did not happen, he's doing a degree on socialogy and he has lots to use with all there is in here let me tell you...

LOL! Yeah, whenever controversy is sought, the solution is simple.....bring humans into the picture.

Works every time! (because we are really good at it...........heck, we should be.......we've had thousands of years of practice.)

[Mike11121]

Wow. Talk about precious! Here's my take on this:

1. If you're in a cover band, you are there to play what the punters want, not what you want. I'm sure every covers band has tunes that they would prefer not to play (certainly the case for me), but the bottom line is you are being paid to play what they want (and, by extension, what the venue owner wants presumably, since he/she probably wants a crowded venue full of thirsty, happy punters. Really, who cares if you like it or not - they like it plenty, and that's enough! You are their live jukebox - get over it. Try working in an office and saying "Nah man - I don't do photocopying. It offends my artistic sensibilities". Yeah, right!
2. If you're in an originals band, on the other hand, you get to play exactly what you want. Some will play very selective covers, some certainly not. But at that point the punters are turning up to see you and your music. Punters won't go to a Rush gig and yell for Freebird, no matter how much they like that tune. It's because their expectations are managed.

It's just this easy. If you play for fun and don't care about the crowd, play want you want and slag off their musical taste all night, by all means (but I'll predict a short career). But if you want to make a living doing covers, put what you like to listen to on your iPod, but play what the crowd wants, suck it up and smile, no matter how "aesthetically incongruous" you find it. Sure pays better!

Like I keep telling my sons, there's a world of difference between what you like to listen to and what you play for money. And that's fine.

[fourstringdrums]

Originally Posted by Biggbass

most of the above...the cash was real but we don't need the money. we're all rich lawyers....(not really)
She was wasted and it felt awkward and cheapening to the band to take her money. We could have plowed our way through like many other local bands might have done and made an unrehearsed mess of it but we politely, humorously declined her offer and continued through our set list, followed our "Tom Landry Game Plan" and were rewarded with a full room standing ovation by playing We Won't Get Fooled Again.
And they loved it.

I respect that. I'd rather not play a song rather than butcher it and make the band look bad. If you're going to get paid for it, you better do it well.