So I'm having a terrible experience with my first gig with this band

dukeisdog · #1 05-07-2009, 02:43 PM

Just a little background info for you. I'm almost 16 years old, and I play in a hardcore band based in Winnipeg. I'm loving every minute of practicing with the guys, and have been playing bass for about 6 years now. About 2 months ago, one of the guys that goes to my school (who plays acoustic with another guy I know at my school) asks me if I'd like to do a show with them at a local community club, because we'd be able to get every thing for free because they work there.

Well clearly that's really not an offer you can refuse - BAD IDEA.

The show is Friday (tomorrow), and my band is completely ready for our set. We're doing 5 songs, and we're opening the show. There are 8 bands in total playing there, and it's gonna be a good time, I hope.

Anyway, to get back to the story.

I get a call while I'm getting driven to band practice last night, saying my band needs to pay $100 to rent the hall, which is decent, because it is quite cheap, actually. I finish talking to him, and about 15 minutes later, I get told that my band ALSO has to pay $15 for the canteen to be open, which I don't really understand seeing as nobody really wants the canteen open anyway.

If we were going to have to pay for all of this stuff, we would've rented out a venue downtown somewhere, and had twice the capacity as the community club.

Anyway, they've also told me various times this week that they aren't ready, and how they wanna do 60%-40% all of the money earned for them. None of the other bands are asking for any cash or anything as my band is using the money to get us started. He's also continuously been telling everybody that my band has had nothing to do with organizing this, when we've gotten 5 other bands to play!

Sorry for the rant, but I'm quite annoyed by this, and I have a feeling that this is going to be a bad experience for me.

Anyway, I recieved a text message from him earlier today saying they don't have a sound guy to hire, so they wont be micing the drums, either. Thats just great.

Have any of you guys had anything like this happen just a few days before a show?

Rick Auricchio · #2 05-07-2009, 02:48 PM

Sounds worthless. I'd cancel. It isn't like you're the only band.

And, with eight bands, how much time is each getting? Even if you could all do back-to-back sets (with zero setup time), that's 30 minutes each for a four-hour event.

And paying for the privilege? No thanks.

I wouldn't even trust the person who said you're opening the show.

dukeisdog · #3 05-07-2009, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Auricchio

Sounds worthless. I'd cancel. It isn't like you're the only band.

And, with eight bands, how much time is each getting? Even if you could all do back-to-back sets (with zero setup time), that's 30 minutes each for a four-hour event.

And paying for the privilege? No thanks.

I wouldn't even trust the person who said you're opening the show.

I just don't want to cancel as I have a few friends coming from out of the city to come see us play. I'm really excited for it, but you're right. That's pretty much no playing time whatsoever. Doors open at 6:30, and we can play till we want, as we have the hall rented for the whole night, we're expecting it to be over for like 12:30 - 1:00. I'm really angry about this whole canteen thing too. I have to pay for something we don't need/wont make profit from. Thats useless to me, and quite frusturating.

I've played at my school with him, and he's a pretty nice guy, but I'm starting to not like him so much after all of this

wnelson · #4 05-07-2009, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Auricchio

Sounds worthless. I'd cancel. It isn't like you're the only band.

And, with eight bands, how much time is each getting? Even if you could all do back-to-back sets (with zero setup time), that's 30 minutes each for a four-hour event.

And paying for the privilege? No thanks.

I wouldn't even trust the person who said you're opening the show.

right on,....Ive never heard of the band paying to play

this whole thing sounds unorganized,and a waste of time....

so ya'll are paying 100+ for maybe a 20 to 30 minute set???

nuts to that i say........8 bands too? jesus!

i would cancel and then tell the guy why....talk it out.....Im sure someone between the two of you will learn a lesson

vagus · #5 05-07-2009, 03:02 PM

Dude... Don't pay to play...

etoncrow · #6 05-07-2009, 03:02 PM

I am sorry man but I could not connect enough dots in your explanation to respond. Just the first paragraph confuses me. You are playing with this hard core band but this acoustic duo asks you to do a gig with them at a community center. OK cool, what does your band have to do with any of this?

dukeisdog · #7 05-07-2009, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by etoncrow

I am sorry man but I could not connect enough dots in your explanation to respond. Just the first paragraph confuses me. You are playing with this hard core band but this acoustic duo asks you to do a gig with them at a community center. OK cool, what does your band have to do with any of this?

The whole thing was supposed to be mix genred, thats all.
It sure is a weird mix though, I'll tell ya that much. I'm really starting to second guess this whole thing. Having to pay to play is garbage, but we'll end up making something out of this, though.

I'm gonna give him a call a bit later tonight, and see if there is any way we can lower the price on the canteen at all, and if not, I think we will just back out.

etoncrow · #8 05-07-2009, 03:18 PM

Good luck. There are numberous threads on here about this pay to play scam. Bad precident in my opinion. If musicians are not good enough to get paid they need to practice more. If it is simply a case of extortion then produce the gig yourself, take the risk and reap the benefits. Just my opinion though.

steveksux · #9 05-07-2009, 07:33 PM

Why is it that YOUR band has to pay $100? What's everyone else paying? Huge red flag. ESPECVIALLY considering none of you should be paying to play.

Do not do it. Either he's scamming the other bands out of $100 also, taking major advantage of all of you. Or you're the only band paying. Also not cool. This stinks big ime.

It'd be one thing if they were up front about it with you, but out of the blue, day or two before, tells you to come up with $100. Screw that. No way.

Tell him he should have told you about the $100 up front. No way are you going to pay. If he still wants you to play, great. If not, its his call. You're not backing out on him. He changed the deal midstream.

Randy

Sonicfrog · #10 05-07-2009, 07:49 PM

I wholeheartedly agree with all of the above. When I was playing with Chris Plays Guitar. we had two experiences like this. One was going to be a youth show. The other was one of those wonderful battle of the bands. We had to pay $150 to enter. Thought it would be good exposure. The guy who hosted that one is now in jail for extortion.

Wesley R · #11 05-07-2009, 08:12 PM

It is a bad deal and far to common.
Maybe a kinda exception. We rented an Armory, fronted all the coinage for pop, popcorn, security, chics to run the food stand, front door and such. Cover was a buck or two. We probably pulled thirty or forty bucks each out of the deal. We also were busy on breaks and it took some of the fun out of it.
The next time we let the normal promoter do his thing and we each got about 450 for the night and had fun at break time.

xgator4u · #12 05-07-2009, 09:11 PM

Pay to play=NO WAY.....
Don't do it, Don't do it, Don't do it.

Rob Lewis · #13 05-08-2009, 05:41 AM

Slightly off-topic, but does anyone know what/where the first pay-to-play venue was? My bet is that the whole idea of PtoP was thought up by an older muso who recognized that younger players can be a bit naive and easily duped. A band I was in about 15 years ago played one of those "talent night" things at the Rock Garden in London, you know the sort of thing-5 bands, same backline etc. Anyway, we did the gig for a pittance and were asked back the following week with the caveat that it would be PtoP at £50 per band. I don't know how the £ is against the $ at the moment, but that means £250 for the venue without a note being played. We refused, and I personally am a committed anti PtoP person.

funkmangriff · #14 05-08-2009, 06:03 AM

i would in NO way play

your situation has completely puzzled me!

i have like 20+ questions to ask about the situation (other bands paying, charging at the doors, refreshments, all that stuff!) because only that way would i even start to clarify a reason y i would pay to play.

If you break even, i guess, there may be the beneifts of promoting urself for free, if ur at a loss you'll probably argue with yourselfs and other people about where the moneys gone. If you make a profit, well, happy days!!! again i don't know all the details about the gig as specified above........but if ur playing it, pray that soething goes your way!

good luck dude!

jcullen24 · #15 05-08-2009, 06:08 AM

Quote:

I've played at my school with him, and he's a pretty nice guy, but I'm starting to not like him so much after all of this

Man that old adage, friends and money don't mix

Sounds like you're doing a "charity show" Your friends are coming from out of town? I would have them come see you at your regular gig!

Ah well, It is what it is.

wildhorse · #16 05-08-2009, 06:20 AM

No I have never ever paid to play. But at the last minute he changes your verbal contract? Change yours at the last minute, change it to you are not going to play unless he covers the $115.00. Simple don't pay to play. EVER.

jgroh · #17 05-08-2009, 06:23 AM

I agree with not paying to play wholeheartedly, but in reality, youre 16 and in one (if not THE) first bands you have played with. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do (not that agree with it, mind you).

$15 is not alot of money for that canteen even at 16, but I agree with you on principle. It may be too late but I would have told this guy that you dont have any money for this and if they want you to play with them, its going to be for free. I would have done this last night or this morning (day of the show)...what is he going to say?

dukeisdog · #18 05-08-2009, 10:24 AM

I'm quite confident we will still make a bit of profit, which is why we're going to go through with this and play.

All of the other bands will not have to pay anything for the canteen, except for my band, and my friends acoustic band. We're still expecting to make anywhere in the area of $175 after paying for all of this, but it has already been a band decision that we will never play with these guys again.

Joe.shaffer · #19 05-08-2009, 10:38 AM

$100 x 8 bands and $30 for the canteen.. Assuming everybody has to pay to play. Somebody is getting fat off this one. In principle I don't agree with paying to play. I did it alot starting off at about your age though. If you end up on the positive side of it when it's all said and done, good on you. Under no circumstances let them nickel and dime you when it comes time for them to cough up their money. Bar owner tried to charge us for glasses that got broken once.

Godbody · #20 05-08-2009, 10:50 AM

Are they asking for all the bands to pony up $115?

That's nearly a grand to put on a show in what is apparently a small venue (you said for $100 you could rent a place twice the size!)

If you'll be making $175 in profit, that means you expect each band to make just under $300 total, or around $2300 for the whole show, not including the canteen, split 8 ways.

Lets say there's a $5 cover you're making the money from (just a number I made up, its what a lot of no-name shows like this I've been to charge, and personally I wouldn't ever go if it was more). At $5 a head, you'd need around 460 people to turn up to make that kind of money (I'm assuming you don't really have merch; even if you do, I'd be surprised if you made much of anything off of it).

Do you think well over 400 people are gonna come to this gig? Can the place even hold 460 people plus 8 bands?

If, by some miracle, the numbers did work out, you should consider the gig; but I really don't see that happening, based on what you've described.

If you do it as a favor, its probably going to be $115 favor, and if you get anything back, consider yourself fortunate.

_________________
Edit: just saw that only you and your friends are paying for the canteen, which throws my numbers a bit off, but makes the situation even more screwy. Why are you the only bands paying for this?!? That's messed up. How are you not more suspicious of this?