So, we had an "off" night last night....

[mike_v_s]

...and the crowd was still really into it. Not sure why. I'm not bringing this up to brag. Quick background:

I'm in a weekend hack in cover band and we (against my better judgment and vocalized opinion) attempted to cram too many new songs into this gig before they were polished and ready.

So last night the songs go over about as well as I thought they would (sounding unpolished and a noticeably sloppy, to be honest), but the crowd was into the show, overall. The problem is that because the gig went well, my opinion of our level of preparedness is now counting for about nothing in the eyes of my band, who were mostly piss drunk last night, anyway.

My bitch is that I give up quite a bit (I have a family) to play and not executing this thing to the very best of our abilities seems like a waste of everyone's time. If I wanted to get loaded and bang out Duplo versions of songs I kinda like, I shouldn't even have to show up for practice.

Anyway, I know I'm stuck with two basic solutions (quit or shut up), but I needed to vent, as it were.

Mike

[DavidE]

The audience often (usually) doesn't notice the mistakes that the band notices. It's just the way it is. If you want to show the band how off the performance is, you need to tape it and make them listen to it later (when they're sober).

[Beersurgeon]

Originally Posted by DavidE

The audience often (usually) doesn't notice the mistakes that the band notices. It's just the way it is. If you want to show the band how off the performance is, you need to tape it and make them listen to it later (when they're sober).

+1
The guys in the band don't hear my mistakes. But I hear them way to clear.

[countrybass007]

One thing to keep in mind, the more you play the songs the tighter they'll get. Try to use the poor versions to your advantage and show your bandmates how you can polish them up at practice to sound better. I've found diplomancy works better than getting pissed of every time. The drinking thing is a whole thing in itself. Trying to convince people they play better if they watch their booze consumption is often a hard thing to do. Good luck, and don't throw in the towel yet.

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by mike_v_s

...and the crowd was still really into it. Not sure why. I'm not bringing this up to brag. Quick background:

I'm in a weekend hack in cover band and we (against my better judgment and vocalized opinion) attempted to cram too many new songs into this gig before they were polished and ready.

So last night the songs go over about as well as I thought they would (sounding unpolished and a noticeably sloppy, to be honest), but the crowd was into the show, overall. The problem is that because the gig went well, my opinion of our level of preparedness is now counting for about nothing in the eyes of my band, who were mostly piss drunk last night, anyway.

My bitch is that I give up quite a bit (I have a family) to play and not executing this thing to the very best of our abilities seems like a waste of everyone's time. If I wanted to get loaded and bang out Duplo versions of songs I kinda like, I shouldn't even have to show up for practice.

Anyway, I know I'm stuck with two basic solutions (quit or shut up), but I needed to vent, as it were.

Mike

if your guys were piss drunk i think you are wasting your time.....find some guys who's standards meet or exceed yours

[mike_v_s]

Originally Posted by DavidE

The audience often (usually) doesn't notice the mistakes that the band notices. It's just the way it is. If you want to show the band how off the performance is, you need to tape it and make them listen to it later (when they're sober).

You'd think, right? We've done that before, but apparently my standard of "good enough to play out" and theirs isn't finding any common ground. It's not just flubs here and there, we missed changes, the vocals were pitchy, etc, etc, etc.

It's not like I'm Hitler at practice. As I said, I'm a hack and I understand that there are varying levels of talent involved. It's just frustrating knowing that we could nail something if we just gave it a bit more time and having 3/4 of the band decide that it's "good enough" and add it to the show.

Mike

[Stinsok]

It's odd Mike, we have had some nights where we were awesome and would finish to the sound of crickets. On one such occasion, my buddy channeled Daffy Duck by sliding to his knees and shouting "TA-DAAAAAAH!

[Rojo Grande]

hope the money's good...

[kcole4001]

We've all had bad nights for whatever reasons, but thinking that you can fly that way (drunk & sloppy) every time is going to lead to a big surprise for them real soon.

It'll also give the band a rep for being sloppy, out of control, etc.
Not good.

You know better, and putting up with it is a waste of your time, and I have a family and other commitments too, so I know time is not often the easiest thing to come by.

Either make 'em see the light, or move on.
Trying to reproduce those circumstances, flailing through a show without putting much effort iinto it, and hoping for the best is just wrong, and one of the reasons musicians have a bad rep in general.
It's just bad for everybody.

[Skitch it!]

I'd ask them to do the homework first, play fewer new tracks in the gig (say 2-3 per gig?) IMO 'good enough' is a cop-out really, the gig is worth doing well enough for a better reputation, better places, more money, better looking girls, this is how it works IME, I like to 'get relaxed' but I've got my limits together (a little ; ), I wouldn't last too long in a band if I started to mess up like that in a gig, I know the cats wouldn't accept it, maybe once, not twice.

[steveksux]

I understand your frustration, I hate it when something gets hacked through because of indifference.

But remember we're in the entertainment business, not the music business... Sometimes the band is smokin hot, and the crowds has no clue. Sometimes we have a bad night, and people love it.

People don't catch much as far as mistakes, has to be a pretty epic trainwreck before someone notices. But that's no excuse for being lazy and sloppy, they should take enough pride in themselves to get it right, or as right as their ability, rather than their piss-poor work ethic, allows.

Randy

[mike_v_s]

Originally Posted by Rojo Grande

hope the money's good...

Uh, no. The free beer sucks, too.

Originally Posted by kcole4001

We've all had bad nights for whatever reasons, but thinking that you can fly that way (drunk & sloppy) every time is going to lead to a big surprise for them real soon.

It'll also give the band a rep for being sloppy, out of control, etc.
Not good.

I'm afraid (but not positive) that rep is already getting around.

Originally Posted by Skitch it!

I'd ask them to do the homework first, play fewer new tracks in the gig (say 2-3 per gig?) IMO 'good enough' is a cop-out really, the gig is worth doing well enough for a better reputation, better places, more money, better looking girls, this is how it works IME, I like to 'get relaxed' but I've got my limits together (a little ; ),

I'm with ya on the 2-3 per gig learnig curve. Sometiems things come together quicker, sometimes not. I'm in COMPLETE agreement that blowing off songs as "good enough" is a sure way to keep us out fo other bars and clubs. The band "leader" is delusional, unfortunately, and honestly believes that the way we do things right now is awesome and will get us into the top clubs in the area. It takes a metric ton of self-restarint to keep myself from just backhanding him when this conversation comes up.

Originally Posted by steveksux

I understand your frustration, I hate it when something gets hacked through because of indifference.

But remember we're in the entertainment business, not the music business... Sometimes the band is smokin hot, and the crowds has no clue. Sometimes we have a bad night, and people love it.

People don't catch much as far as mistakes, has to be a pretty epic trainwreck before someone notices. But that's no excuse for being lazy and sloppy, they should take enough pride in themselves to get it right, or as right as their ability, rather than their piss-poor work ethic, allows.

Randy

You're very right in that, especially as a cover band, my "job" is to keep the patrons happy and drunk. My brother (an athlete of sorts) and I discussed this earlier. His view? "A win is a win". I just can't be fully satisfied with that when the team played like crap and has no plans for changing the approach.

Mike

[mboogiemanusa]

My advice would be to get a small hand help digital recorder like the ones they sell at Guitar center for $99. Record your gigs from the back of the room - make each set a separate file and then burn CD copies for everyone. It's good information in many respects. You get a sense of how tight the band really sounds. The players will each hear parts they suck on and naturally will work to improve it. You can't really go by crowd response because folks may be buzzed and also friends of the band will scream and shout no matter how crappy you sound.

[mpdd]

a certain level of sloppiness is necessary imo or you can't tell if the band is really playing or just miming to their cd

[G00D+~VIBES]

I'm smellin' what you're steppin' in, and I've worn (am currently wearing) those shoes too.

As always, the most trying part of being a musician is dealing with musicians.

Good luck, brother.

[mike_v_s]

Originally Posted by mboogiemanusa

My advice would be to get a small hand help digital recorder like the ones they sell at Guitar center for $99. Record your gigs from the back of the room - make each set a separate file and then burn CD copies for everyone. It's good information in many respects. You get a sense of how tight the band really sounds.

We've got an H2 that gets used periodically, but there have been a couple videos done and you get a pretty good sense of what needs to be worked on from those but...

The players will each hear parts they suck on and naturally will work to improve it.

...this doesn't happen in the way you'd expect it does. There was a video done of this show. I can promise that after reviewing it, a good number of my bandmates will be high-fiving eachother at the "awesome" parts and glazing over the parts where its obvious we didn't do as well. Maybe I'm Debbie Downer.

You can't really go by crowd response because folks may be buzzed and also friends of the band will scream and shout no matter how crappy you sound.

I agree.

Mike

[Baron Von Vik]

Originally Posted by Beersurgeon

+1
The guys in the band don't hear my mistakes. But I hear them way to clear.

Ditto that.

[Gard]

Northshore bands tend to suck anyhow, maybe yours just sucks a bit less?

[TheVoiceless]

Trouble with most cover bands opposed to original bands. The members just have the "meh" attitude. Close enough counts, and gets you paid. That's the reason I played in dead end original bands where we practiced 3 nights a week to play one show a month. But I am ready to be a hack!!!

[mike_v_s]

Originally Posted by TheVoiceless

Trouble with most cover bands opposed to original bands. The members just have the "meh" attitude. Close enough counts, and gets you paid. That's the reason I played in dead end original bands where we practiced 3 nights a week to play one show a month. But I am ready to be a hack!!!

I prefer to play originals, honestly, but finding an original band with members in my situation (mid 30's, fulltime 9-5 job, limited practice time available) is fairly difficult. As a result, I took what I could get. Even so, I approach both band types the same.

Mike