Solo etiquette

BassManMatt · #1 02-26-2010, 09:08 AM

New to forum, this place is awesome. Thanks for doing it. On to my question..
We've been doing house band/rhythm section work for a weekly open mic jam at a very nice local club for about a month. This is in addition to regular bookings there on weekends. Platform is blues/jazz with some funk/r&b in there occasionally.
Because it's still a pretty new event, there have been some slow nights, and I'm feeling that the material (blues standards for the most part with a few miles davis adaptations) can get a bit tired. Since the guitar/harp trade solos AT LEAST once per song, I started thinking about asking for one for myself and/or the drummer like once every set or something, but not even sure if it's appropriate to this style. I've got no problem with just being like 'I got it' and taking one, but is there any etiquette that would apply to the bass player having a few bars once in awhile, if it's not normally expected that he'd have a solo?
Thanks, Matt

MakiSupaStar · #2 02-26-2010, 09:11 AM

Personally, I'm not a fan of bass solo's, but in a jazz kind of scenario I can see why you're inclined to go that way.

Phalex · #3 02-26-2010, 09:14 AM

^ What ~~she~~ he said.

BassManMatt · #4 02-26-2010, 09:14 AM

I hear you man. I'm a relatively young player in a band full of old dudes, still trying to find my place in it, you know? Not trying to play tastelessly or anything..maybe an occasional solo is tasteless in and of itself

Passinwind · #5 02-26-2010, 09:25 AM

I've run and/or played a zillion open mikes, in many formats. Many bass players outside of jazz pass when offered a solo IME. I usually get offered multiple ones -- pretty nearly every tune at some jazz-based ones. I pass about 5% of the time, for better or worse. Folsom Prison Blues? Sure, why not. Stormy Monday? I dunno, I don't have much to say there. Reggae? Not gonna do it, wouldn't be prudent -- for me at least.

If it's a buzz kill for the crowd or the musicians, get better at soloing. The host should have a handle on who's gonna ramp things up and who kills the vibe, and subtly point things the right way. I guess in your case you may just have to ask outright the first few times. I never ask for solos, they ask for me at this point.

My drummer gets tons of solos in my band, maybe one or two a set in jazz bands, prolly none in a lot of his rock gigs. Context is important here I think.

dpbass613 · #6 02-26-2010, 09:32 AM

i have two "features" with bands that i play in now, its not so much a solo as it is more a passing phrase or run that leads into the next portion of the song, again not a solo but attention is directed to the bass. In a jazz style gig, its definetly more likely its appropriate for a bassist to solo especially at an open mic...its an open mic, do whatever you want to do...are you being paid as a backing band? or volunteering your time?

kesslari · #7 02-26-2010, 09:42 AM

Throw the Staples Singers "I'll Take You There" into the jam. Built in bass solo, may open the door for you.

BassManMatt · #8 02-26-2010, 09:48 AM

Thanks yall
Charlie, nice advice man, thanks. Context is everything. I usually am offered 1 a night. Trying to get better at it is precisely my goal here. Stormy Monday would work great, sure, why not...I need to just ask the leader, our harp player. Who's also my Dad... maybe that's my problem, lol...
We're doing this gratis, the gigs with just us are paid, this is just for fun. It's more of a blues with some jazz than a jazz platform.

FunkMetalBass · #9 02-26-2010, 09:49 AM

Talk to the guys to take one. In that style of music, bass solos are fairly common ground and if you really are itching to play one and you think the timing is right, communicate and do it.

Be respectful not to spend too much time soloing, but make it good and meaningful and don't step on toes.

jazzciggarette · #10 02-26-2010, 09:55 AM

in my experience bass solos are fairly common in blues/rnb/funk based music. Deffinately fits the context.

Passinwind · #11 02-26-2010, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BassManMatt

Thanks yall
Charlie, nice advice man, thanks. Context is everything. I usually am offered 1 a night. Trying to get better at it is precisely my goal here. Stormy Monday would work great, sure, why not...

Stormy Monday is a great starter, since it's a standard form but has more than 3 chords. It's also pretty easy for everyone else to hear the resolution and know here to come back in. But really, it's all about whatever tune inspires you have something nice to add to the conversation in.

There are some kind of faux jazz tunes like Moondance that everyone naturally expects me to solo on. The last time that happened I managed to get a pretty full blown Smoke on the Water quote in without killing the song. In fact people were coming in off the street to try to make sense of things. Bass solos don't have to just devolve to the groove if you don't want 'em to.

GreggBummer · #12 02-26-2010, 09:57 AM

I am in a similar situation to the OP. Although I am playing in a blues band with guys near my age. All of them are fantastic players. I have been thinking about asking for a solo as well, although I realize that bass solos can be tasteless when played out of context.

However, assuming the vibe of the room allows it, I think everyone in the band should have a least one solo in an average night. Ego, even a small one, still needs to be fed.

That being said, I am perfectly happy to not play a solo. I am playing in band with guys who push my limits every night. I've learned more playing with these guys over the last 10 months than I have in the past 25 years. I'm happy to trade a little spotlight for this opportunity.

jaywa · #13 02-26-2010, 10:12 AM

Generally, it's bad form for a bassist to ask for or expect a solo in any open jam situation other than jazz.

My advice -- especially if you're just starting out on the scene -- establish yourself first as a rock solid, hold-it-down guy and at some point if they like how you work in a support role they'll start throwing some solo opps your way.

Just make sure you can really solo well. It is much better for a bassist to not play solos (and have people think he can), than to play one (and prove to everyone he can't). In my cover band I get ONE solo a night -- 8 bars at the bass break in "Brown Eyed Girl" -- and that's plenty for me.

BassManMatt · #14 02-26-2010, 10:28 AM

Thanks Jay, that's what I wanted to know. Looking to avoid bad form. May talk to the leader about it privately, but won't continually ask for one or anything. Better to be silent and be thought a fool, etc.
Actually he advised me to kind of edge up to the front lines during solos and give him a look. See, coming from the rhythm side of it, I'm not sure how to approach taking one like these melodic guys do. Maybe it's best to just let them ask you, if they decide to do so.
Yeah, we do a couple of blues bastardizations of jazz tunes, So what, Work song, Watermelon, etc.
Definitely want to work more on the melodic side of the playing. It's proving to be really tough to get my arms around... and I listen to jazz constantly. Just looking to use this as a springboard.

standupright · #15 02-26-2010, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passinwind

I've run and/or played a zillion open mikes, in many formats. Many bass players outside of jazz pass when offered a solo IME. I usually get offered multiple ones -- pretty nearly every tune at some jazz-based ones. I pass about 5% of the time, for better or worse. Folsom Prison Blues? Sure, why not. Stormy Monday? I dunno, I don't have much to say there. Reggae? Not gonna do it, wouldn't be prudent -- for me at least.

If it's a buzz kill for the crowd or the musicians, get better at soloing. The host should have a handle on who's gonna ramp things up and who kills the vibe, and subtly point things the right way. I guess in your case you may just have to ask outright the first few times. I never ask for solos, they ask for me at this point.

My drummer gets tons of solos in my band, maybe one or two a set in jazz bands, prolly none in a lot of his rock gigs. Context is important here I think.

+1

pretty much the same experience for me.

paulslagle · #16 02-26-2010, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BassManMatt

New to forum, this place is awesome. Thanks for doing it. On to my question..
We've been doing house band/rhythm section work for a weekly open mic jam at a very nice local club for about a month. This is in addition to regular bookings there on weekends. Platform is blues/jazz with some funk/r&b in there occasionally.
Because it's still a pretty new event, there have been some slow nights, and I'm feeling that the material (blues standards for the most part with a few miles davis adaptations) can get a bit tired. Since the guitar/harp trade solos AT LEAST once per song, I started thinking about asking for one for myself and/or the drummer like once every set or something, but not even sure if it's appropriate to this style. I've got no problem with just being like 'I got it' and taking one, but is there any etiquette that would apply to the bass player having a few bars once in awhile, if it's not normally expected that he'd have a solo?
Thanks, Matt

If anyone in the band ever gives you the nod for bass solo, keep in mind that it is merely an excuse for the rest of the band to head for the bar.

Hold it down, be economical, musically mature, play in the pocket, and keep your chops to yourself.

I promise... You'll get more calls (and appreciation) that way.

Joebone · #17 02-26-2010, 10:55 AM

What's with all this suppression of the bass as a solo voice? Are we to be slaves to lowered expectations? Given all the progress the electric bass has made as a solo voice since Stanley Clarke, Jack Bruce and Larry Graham illuminated the path, I'm surprised by the overall tone of this thread.

In a rock context, you might well go all night without soloing. Which doesn't make it right, but then I'm a child of the '60's/70's, and I still think the bass player on the Byrds "Three Sides Live" took a killer solo on "Eight Miles High" .... and let's talk about Jack Bruce with Cream...

In a jazz context, if you're as strong a soloist as the folks passing through the jam, you could well end up soloing on every song. I've been to jams where the bassist was the strongest or among the strongest players, and those guys got plenty of space.

In a blues-jazz context, the right place is probably somewhere in-between.

The limiting factors should be your own ability to do that thing and the overall context. But if you have something to say on your axe, and others are blowing manifold choruses, you should definitely get your piece.

To add variety, talk to your bandmates about bass solo with light rhythm and drums, with drums only, and maybe an occasional chorus by yourself. Or maybe even a power solo, with the others going full out, if you have that itch...think about dynamic variety, so that the "bass solo" doesn't become a rote thing.

And do you all trade fours? A fine way to get some energy into a jam, for you to get a piece, and to really understand where "one" lives.

If you are a less-experienced player, edge in gradually...but if you really have the urge and means, then don't let it get suppressed by some tired cliche that the bassist doesn't get some!

Pat C. · #18 02-26-2010, 11:01 AM

It's an open jam, and your dad is the bandleader, correct? That should make it easier, not more difficult. Tell him you'd like to take a solo, specify the song, and if he is cool with it...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaywa

Generally, it's bad form for a bassist to ask for or expect a solo in any open jam situation other than jazz.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreggBummer

...bass solos can be tasteless when played out of context.

I'm just wondering, who decides these things? I agree that a solo, if played inappropriately, can seem tasteless if played by any instrument out of context. But music is art, and that means we don't always have to follow the "rules" and sometimes tasteless is entirely appropriate. And IMO in contemporary music the bassist's role has expanded enough for it not to be bad form or tasteless to solo, in many musical genres.

An open jam situation is the perfect place to try things that may seem out of the box. If a 24 bar bass solo is a buzzkill or chases away the crowd at an open blues/jazz/funk jam the problem is not the presence of the solo, its the content.

Passinwind · #19 02-26-2010, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joebone

I'm a child of the '60's/70's, and I still think the bass player on the Byrds "Three Sides Live" took a killer solo on "Eight Miles High" ....

Gotta link to that album Joe? I'm not familiar with it. If it was Skip Battin I'm especially interested. He was one of my mentors, and a very underrated bassist.

I cut my teeth listening to rock guys like Jack Casady, Phil Lesh, Jack Bruce, etc. They didn't necessarily even need a solo to be soloing in some sense, but maybe that's another thread in its own right.

notverygood · #20 02-26-2010, 11:19 AM

A bass player who thinks a bass solo is tastless or always out of context should not be surprised or offended when the guitar player askes them to turn down or only play root notes. I mean, if your gonna put yourself down, don't be shocked when others do too. The short time I've been on this site I've seen some awesome clips of talented people who solo as well as any guitar or horn or piano player. Give it a try I say.