Sound Guy Complaint

[warwick.hoy]

This isn't your typical sound guy complaint but first some background.

I'm a non-christian but both the front man (Matt Russell...see sig) and the drummer of the trio I root in are christian. His music is secular however. Most of his songs are love songs he wrote to his wife.

We have played with some christian rock bands as well as at churches. None of that makes any difference to me as I'm not offended by peoples religious choices. Can't say I'm a big fan of christian rock but I fancy myself as open-minded at least not closed minded as to say I wouldn't play with people of other religious beliefs than my own. That street works both ways and both the front man and the drummer are good friends as well as great bandmates.

Getting to the point I am flabbergasted by the fit thrown by the sound child of the headlining christian band of the last gig we played. I call him a sound man but I've never seen a man act like this.

I was the first person of the two opening bands to arrive and the headliners had already setup and were working on their sound check. Note that this is about a 750 seat theater with a large stage and great acoustics. A digital sound system (the kind where you can save the "scene" for each band) was rented for the show.

Their drums had already been setup on the riser...and the sound teen's "$2000" mics had been attached to the drums. Our drummer wasn't comfortable playing on the HL's kit so we were stuck with his drums at stage level and the sound boy about had a conniption about how to mic these drums. I chalk it up to him finding out that he may have to do more work (which he didn't). He basically announced in a bothered and heightened prepubescent tone of voice that he "didn't know how he felt" about putting "$2000" mics on a second set of drums...and that if "we sounded bad it made him look bad", which to me is kind of insulting. Basically he was saying that we weren't good enough for him to run sound for.

I read into it as he wasn't getting paid to run sound for us and we were lucky he was even letting us use his "$2000" mics. He didn't help us move his "$2000" mics from one drum set to the other. The second drum set had floating mounts that were in the way of the "2000" mic's clips; so I had to dig up a mic stand and switch the holders out. If he was so concerned about his "$2000" mics than he should have been the one handling them. I don't let other people gig with my $1500 bass and $1000 rig.

Being the professional that I am I approached him and told him that I switched the mics from drum clip to mic stand and asked him if that was agreeable. In his same huffy puffy tone of voice he replied..."as long as [so and so] get's his mics back I don't care". I thought to myself what a douche bag....and that was the last my interaction of the night with him.

I'm sure most complaints with sound guys are mostly to the affect off my bass was buried in the mix....I had no monitors...the singer sounded like poo....that sort of thing. I thought this guy got a good sound out of the HL's but at an ego maniacal price.

Note that the HL's had done an entire tour without openers. That can explain the confusion, but not the less than professional attitude.

Luckily the fellas that put on the show had experience running sound in their churches and filled in for an expectantly absent sound boy.

Here is my rub....I understand getting paid for the work you do etc. etc. but I was under the impression that christianity was about fellowship, helping you brothers out, not throwing a hissy when you find out you may have to put more effort out. This isn't a jab at christianity just at a childish sound (?),...maybe I'm just a little presumptious in thinking that a christian sound man might have a more professional attitude. At least a positive attitude.

[bassteban]

Not to defend the sound-putz(I might have smacked him), but I am a Christian, & I know a lot of pretty messed-up Christians. I for one am no angel. Also, props to you for playing w/people w/differeing views(than yours).

[modulusman]

Did your band send him a stage plot in advance? Maybe If he would have known that your drummer was going to use his own kit he would have had more mics available. Once you pulled the mics off the the already soundchecked drum kit unless they are put back in exactly the same place there will be changes to the sound. Plus their is the hassle of having to soundcheck your drummers kit. The soundman may have been pressed for time so you did add to his workload. Doesn't matter if he is christian or not without hearing his side of the story your band may have been in the wrong.

[thumpbass1]

Originally Posted by warwick.hoy

This isn't your typical sound guy complaint but first some background.

I'm a non-christian but both the front man (Matt Russell...see sig) and the drummer of the trio I root in are christian. His music is secular however. Most of his songs are love songs he wrote to his wife.

We have played with some christian rock bands as well as at churches. None of that makes any difference to me as I'm not offended by peoples religious choices. Can't say I'm a big fan of christian rock but I fancy myself as open-minded at least not closed minded as to say I wouldn't play with people of other religious beliefs than my own. That street works both ways and both the front man and the drummer are good friends as well as great bandmates.

Getting to the point I am flabbergasted by the fit thrown by the sound child of the headlining christian band of the last gig we played. I call him a sound man but I've never seen a man act like this.

I was the first person of the two opening bands to arrive and the headliners had already setup and were working on their sound check. Note that this is about a 750 seat theater with a large stage and great acoustics. A digital sound system (the kind where you can save the "scene" for each band) was rented for the show.

Their drums had already been setup on the riser...and the sound teen's "$2000" mics had been attached to the drums. Our drummer wasn't comfortable playing on the HL's kit so we were stuck with his drums at stage level and the sound boy about had a conniption about how to mic these drums. I chalk it up to him finding out that he may have to do more work (which he didn't). He basically announced in a bothered and heightened prepubescent tone of voice that he "didn't know how he felt" about putting "$2000" mics on a second set of drums...and that if "we sounded bad it made him look bad", which to me is kind of insulting. Basically he was saying that we weren't good enough for him to run sound for.

I read into it as he wasn't getting paid to run sound for us and we were lucky he was even letting us use his "$2000" mics. He didn't help us move his "$2000" mics from one drum set to the other. The second drum set had floating mounts that were in the way of the "2000" mic's clips; so I had to dig up a mic stand and switch the holders out. If he was so concerned about his "$2000" mics than he should have been the one handling them. I don't let other people gig with my $1500 bass and $1000 rig.

Being the professional that I am I approached him and told him that I switched the mics from drum clip to mic stand and asked him if that was agreeable. In his same huffy puffy tone of voice he replied..."as long as [so and so] get's his mics back I don't care". I thought to myself what a douche bag....and that was the last my interaction of the night with him.

I'm sure most complaints with sound guys are mostly to the affect off my bass was buried in the mix....I had no monitors...the singer sounded like poo....that sort of thing. I thought this guy got a good sound out of the HL's but at an ego maniacal price.

Note that the HL's had done an entire tour without openers. That can explain the confusion, but not the less than professional attitude.

Luckily the fellas that put on the show had experience running sound in their churches and filled in for an expectantly absent sound boy.

Here is my rub....I understand getting paid for the work you do etc. etc. but I was under the impression that christianity was about fellowship, helping you brothers out, not throwing a hissy when you find out you may have to put more effort out. This isn't a jab at christianity just at a childish sound (?),...maybe I'm just a little presumptious in thinking that a christian sound man might have a more professional attitude. At least a positive attitude.

I've been in christian rock bands and have worked the christian music circuit, as I am a christian. It doesn't mean, sadly enough, that self proclaimed christians are always going to behave like they should. I've run into rude and uncalled for, and even outrageous behaviour from my some of my fellow christians over the years, and I too have had to deal with my own bad attitudes and frailties like any other human being. To be honest I've found dealing with folks in the secular side of music to be easier than what I've put up with in the christian world a lot of times. Sorry you had a bad time with a guy who was acting like a bit of jerk christian or not.

[Stinsok]

Take comfort in the fact that all sound guys go straight to hell when they croak.

[Steve]

Not for nuthin' but, IMOHO part of being a professional under that kind of multi act situation is being able to use the provided backline and make it happen even under less than ideal conditions.


Which in no way is intended as a defense of a sound guy who was clearly a butthead.

But,

The headline act offered their kit which ain't a small deal.
The thing was dialed in which ain't a small deal.
Remicing a set of drums properly ain't a small deal.
Moving a set of mics back to the headline set in a hurry is definitely not a small deal regardless of the boards ability to scene save. You move the mics and a good bit of that scene goes right out the window.

I think it might be possible that you kinda missed an opportunity to excel and turned it into a aggravation fest for everyone.

I normally play a Sadowsky 5 and I've walked onstage and been handed one of those 4 string short scale jazz basses before because it was dialed in to the BOSE PA and faster.

It sucked hard so, I sympathize with your drummer but, sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

I also think all drummers should own a set of drum mics. You don't need to spend 2 grand.

The FOH was an SOB but, you know the old joke about the difference between a sound man and a toilet seat...

[bigntasty]

I'm a believer, have played various venues that used Christian sound techs, and generally had very good experiences. There have been a couple of exceptions, though... Nothing worth detailing here.

I guess the bottom line is - Christian or not - we're all still human and therefore, have a tendency to have our moments once in a while. Thanks for your sincere post.

[warwick.hoy]

Originally Posted by Steve

Not for nuthin' but, IMOHO part of being a professional under that kind of multi act situation is being able to use the provided backline and make it happen even under less than ideal conditions.


Which in no way is intended as a defense of a sound guy who was clearly a butthead.

But,

The headline act offered their kit which ain't a small deal.
The thing was dialed in which ain't a small deal.
Remicing a set of drums properly ain't a small deal.
Moving a set of mics back to the headline set in a hurry is definitely not a small deal regardless of the boards ability to scene save. You move the mics and a good bit of that scene goes right out the window.

I think it might be possible that you kinda missed an opportunity to excel and turned it into a aggravation fest for everyone.

I normally play a Sadowsky 5 and I've walked onstage and been handed one of those 4 string short scale jazz basses before because it was dialed in to the BOSE PA and faster.

It sucked hard so, I sympathize with your drummer but, sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

I also think all drummers should own a set of drum mics. You don't need to spend 2 grand.

The FOH was an SOB but, you know the old joke about the difference between a sound man and a toilet seat...

Thank you for a very helpful and somewhat grounding post.

Note that the sound man was....the headlining band's guy.

I didn't let the guys attitude affect my performance or my attitude towards the audience or the guys that actually lent a hand or my bandmates. It was a fun show with a good turnout and very appreciative (young) kids. If for nothing else...it gave some kids something to do. Seemed like there were maybe 250 kids there.

I've played enough gigs to know to expect the un-expected at gigs....especially with multiple bands. I may be a little over sensitive to other peoples' head case-ery. Something I can work on in my progress. I really didn't get too involved with the argument but by-stood. before figuring out what I was going to do....which was run my bass and FX into the HL's bass rig. I'm sure the sound man would have appreciated a drum plot, but we didn't put two and two together.

In my mind I would have preferred that our drummer used the HL's set, which was a clean drumset. To be fair his set; while not a pro kit, doesn't suck either and he was concerned of being responsible should something happen to the HL's kit IE crack a cymbal. I don't think anything would have happened but I can still see his point of view.

The event was put on but a start up promoter who probably had little experience. The whole show seemed hobbled together and no plot was submitted (that I know of) but I'll make sure to suggest getting a plot together.

Drum Mic investment I think is a good idea. I'm not sure how many shows like this we will play and I doubt we will be purchasing much more than powered speakers and a mixer in the way of PA.

EDIT: Like I said this isn't a jab any religion...just my first experience with this sort of show. I thought it might be a little cleaner than that....but I shouldn't be stereotyping the christian music scene as more..."put together"... than the secular scene. In all actuality they are pretty much all equal.

[trailer]

Maybe the sound "guy" is a non-Christian too...

[Bass Pleasures]

What is the difference between a sound man and a toilet seat?

I don't know that one.

[cricketfever32]

I think you should get your own sound guy.

Sound guys do have to deal with a lot of crap from a lot of musicians that really don't know what they're talking about so as a baseline they are required to treat you like total morons. They also have to work on the fly, figuring stuff out as they go unless they're given a detailed script, stage plot etc. so not every wish of the performers can be done easily, and sometimes even the smallest things do become too much, especially if its just one guy running a whole show.

Being a sound guy and a bass player I think enlightens me to both sides of this performer vs. sound guy dilemma and I believe that everyone should give everyone some slack and not give the sound guy crap for every little thing that goes bad, no unrehearsed show goes without a hitch.

[T-Bird]

Hi.

If there was no rider/stage plot that specified the use of a second drum set, I wouldn't have done it either, nor would I been happy if someone else moved the mics. As a matter of a fact that would've cost You 1 hours charge. The cost of the mics is unimportant, $2000 buys, what, 3 or 4 quality drum mics. Hardly enough to mic a set.

I would've explained the reason much better though, but perhaps the soundperson was just too inexperienced to do that

Originally Posted by Bass Pleasures

What is the difference between a sound man and a toilet seat?

I don't know that one.

I don't know either, but I'd make a wild guess that it has something to do with taking either one out of the way before doing number one, or number two, or when yelling while something comes in the wrong direction .

Regards
Sam

[Steve]

Originally Posted by Bass Pleasures

What is the difference between a sound man and a toilet seat?

I don't know that one.

A toilet seat only has to deal with one butt hole at a time.

[Micky-D]

As a sound engineer, my question is why he let you swap the microphones over? Miking a kit can be a bit of a pain, I know that I like to do it myself just to know that all microphones are in their correct positions respective to their pickup patterns. And honestly, if you bring another kit, it is a pain in the arse. However his job is to make what happens on stage louder without fault, and if that involves changing his initial plot then that is what he is paid to do, within reason.

Obviously this man has never worked in theatre.....great sound plot one show, extra marching band, suspended flying monkeys and melodramatic death scene thrown in extra for the next run.

Cheers,
Mick

[calebbarton]

i have no defense for the people that the christian music crowd brings along with them. My previous band has opened for a few big name "christian" bands and honestly 50 percent of them are rude inconsiderate jerks. the sound people they have are idiots. ofcorse i couldn't use my own equipment because apparently my 400+ is embarrassing.

that being said i believe in god and i follow christ but the word christian is used too much to describe retarded people, especially in the music crowd.

[two fingers]

I would venture a guess that the sound guy wasn't associated with the band in any way except the fact that we was hired to do a job. I'll bet he never met the guys in the HL band before he was hired. Thusly, to assume he is a Christian is a bit of a leap. He's just a jerk working for a sound company.

[Bardley]

I, personally, am a Christian sound man. But, just because the headline act is a Christian band doesn't necessarily mean the sound guy is a Christian. I've seen many groups where this is the case. Also, moving drum mics after a soundcheck is likely to piss off any sound man, myself included. Regardless of the scene recall on the board, you have to get every mic back to the exact position it was, even after you took the clips off and put them on stands.
In many cases you would not have been allowed to set up your own drums as an opening act. You were lucky it even happened. IMO, you added needless work to the situation and added stress to everyone.

He could have handled it a little better, but I honestly think you guys, being the opening act, should have played what was already there. When you are the headliner, set up whatever you want.

My $.02

[Beyer160]

It sounds to me like "sound boy" was inexperienced, and chose to cover for it by being arrogant and huffy. That happens a lot when people find themselves in over their heads. As for the religious angle, I've always seen problems when irrelevant affiliations (race, religion, family, etc) are more important than the ability to do a job properly. There's a legendary story around here where a very famous singer ran around backstage with a gun, threatening to kill the soundman after an awful sounding show. Said soundman had been hired because the promoter wanted all his staff composed of a certain racial group, in spite of the fact that the individual in question was notoriously incompetent.

Also, miking a drum kit isn't hard- on festival stages you wind up miking 10 different kits a day, and if you get riders and plots from half of them before they show up it's a bloody miracle. You don't spend an hour dialing in sounds and monitor mixes for each band, just line check and go. A summer on the "mud & dust tour" is a great thing- it weeds out the weak, and teaches you to deal with anything.

[warwick.hoy]

Originally Posted by two fingers

I would venture a guess that the sound guy wasn't associated with the band in any way except the fact that we was hired to do a job. I'll bet he never met the guys in the HL band before he was hired. Thusly, to assume he is a Christian is a bit of a leap. He's just a jerk working for a sound company.

And you'll have to forgive my presumption. Honestly I thought with the rapport between the sound man and the band it seemed that he had at least been on tour with them for a while...I'm sure the label was paying him.

You are probably correct about him never meeting the band before the label introduced him. Personally, I would rather have a sound man whom I was comfortable, perhaps a friend who worked for his credentials, before ever approaching a label.

A lot of lessons learned on this gig as well as talking with you guys. Thank you for keeping the flamage to a minimum and helping to open my eyes some. I wasn't bothered enough to degrade into argument...but I see how to make things go a little more smoothly in the future.

[Dan Knowlton]

Originally Posted by Bass Pleasures

What is the difference between a sound man and a toilet seat?

I don't know that one.

OK - I know that one...

The toilet seat does not get peed on as frequently!

Just my $0.000000002!

Dan K.