Sound guy walked on stage and turned me down...

[peterpalmieri]

Originally Posted by Tbirdbassist

.........soundguy........... said I should turn down because the levels get in this place get weird..........So I obliged and turned down a bit...........So we move into the second song and I turn up.........I see the sound guy walking up, hopping on stage, walking right past me to the amp and turning the volume down...........Needless to say, I turned back up when we began the last song.......The guitar was having feedback problems with his amp and the according to a lot of people in the crowd the drums weren't mixed very well in the PA.

HEY OP! There seems to be some confusion, you say he didn't ask you to turn down and you keep rebutting anyone who references that in their post.

Maybe you weren't precise in your original stmt, but the edited version above kind of summarizes how I read the chain of events and seems like he asked you to turn down, you then turned up (regardless of the reason), then he turned you down and you turned up again.

Am I wrong?

[Thankful birds]

Fact is, rooms can be weird. I try to DI out, and just turn my amp in as a monitor for the band. I let the soundguy handle the sound for the crowd, as what I'm hearing on stage is always different than what's out front.

[mkrtu9]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

Then the rest of the band was playing too loud, too.


Turn down people. Blistering stage volume never got a good result.

+1 on this. Usually everyone just needs to turn it down.

He told you up front to turn it down and gave a reason, I'm sure he was trying to be nice about it.

Go ask him.

[Toshiro]

Originally Posted by whitedk57

In this story, I find that the sound man and the OP are both at fault. Communication is key to getting along with each other. The sound man demands that he turn down (without explanation), while the OP can't hear himself (and turns up anyway). Obviously, it can get stressful setting up for a show, and especially between sets, but if each communicates his needs, they can work it out.

This hits the nail squarely on the head. A little bit of discussion of the ground rules and what each party expects goes a long way toward defusing any situation that may occur during the set.

Sounds to me like OP and SG weren't in sync at all.

[ToddC]

Rule #1: NOBODY touches my instrument or equipment without permission.

Rule #2: Always respect the jobs, duties, and responsibilities of others.

Rule #3: Listen and communicate well

1. It wasn't your gear. A self imposed problem.
2. You both were doing what you felt was best. Neither respected the other.
3. There was insufficient communication. Both could have made better efforts.

Hey... it happens.
Unless 'everyone' follows the above three rules.

My 2 cents

[Lewis22]

There is such a thing as explaining your actions, you said you had a break between songs?

If there was a problem he could have said something then.

But then again, my band members are always asking me to turn down, they complain about bowel cramps

Maybe not.

[Tbirdbassist]

Originally Posted by peterpalmieri

HEY OP! There seems to be some confusion, you say he didn't ask you to turn down and you keep rebutting anyone who references that in their post.

Maybe you weren't precise in your original stmt, but the edited version above kind of summarizes how I read the chain of events and seems like he asked you to turn down, you then turned up (regardless of the reason), then he turned you down and you turned up again.

Am I wrong?

I think you should go back to my O.P. and carefully read the 2nd, 3rd and possibly 4th paragraph. No offense but it's like you just skimmed my post and formed your view.


The only time he asked me to turn down was during the "soundcheck" before we started the set. After that there were no words from him.

[easyvision]

Originally Posted by Tbirdbassist

I think you should go back to my O.P. and carefully read the 2nd, 3rd and possibly 4th paragraph. No offense but it's like you just skimmed my post and formed your view.


The only time he asked me to turn down was during the "soundcheck" before we started the set. After that there were no words from him.

Yeah he asked you to turn down, everything sounded fine and then you turned up again. As has been said before, the responsibility falls on both you and soundguy.

[Slax]

Originally Posted by Tbirdbassist

I got no signal to turn down again after I had first turned things back up. He had all the time in the world to come up and talk to me since we did play 3 songs before he decided that he needed to come on stage and be hands-on without speaking to me about it first.


I most certainly wasn't overpowering the rest of the band. If the drummers ear is right next to an 8x10 and all he's getting is low rumble, I think there's a problem. I think a lot of it had to deal with me not being able to get a good sound out of the GK in the time that we had. I'm sure if I had, idunno, 5/10 minutes to noodle and get things right it would have worked out better. I'm not very familair with Gk and am just not a fan of the "hi-fi" tone.


I'm no sound engineer, but I'm also no idiot and have gigged enough (same goes for the drummer and guitarist) to know how things should be, we all knew that on stage it sounded crap.

There was a signal coming from my pedalboard going to the PA, I am however confused as to why it wasn't used if my sound out of the 8x10 was "overpowering". If I was him id of quickly realized that and spoken to me and said "we should run you through the house". Which I would have happily agreed to. I'm sure any good soundguy would and should suggest that if the backline sound isn't cutting it.


Hey hbarcat, nice of you calling me clueless, btw.



But like I mentioned, according to the other bands and people in the crowd we "sounded great" so we didn't make a bad impression on the people who hadn't heard us before (mostly everyone, we got booked last minute), which is what matters to us more. It's justbothering when things don't sound right on stage.

I've had gigs too where I felt I couldn't hear myself and thought it just all sounded like mud. Then went to the crowd after and they said it sounded great. There was one particular show we had the sound guy record to a CD-R for us. The place was a small bar like the one you were talking about... sounded like just straight noise on stage. When I listened to the recording, it sounded perfect.

I'm guess that all has to do with how sound bounces and how it projected clearly into the crowd but wasn't so friendly to the stage.

[Tbirdbassist]

Originally Posted by easyvision

Yeah he asked you to turn down, everything sounded fine and then you turned up again. As has been said before, the responsibility falls on both you and soundguy.

No... did you bother to read what I posted? Things most certainly did not sound fine. I had trouble hearing myself onstage about 8ft directly infront of the cab. . Couldn't possibly have sounded level with the guitar and drums from the floor.

I'm done with defending myself in this thread as it seems a lot of people are reading what they want/not reading everything all the way through/not reading what I posted correctly. All the info is there and I'm sure a laid out my posts in an easy to understand way.



In any event, it was no communication between me and the soundman which caused this ruckus. Could have been easily avoided had there been, but unfortunately there was not.


We'll be back there in January sometime accord to our booking agency so perhaps I'll dig this thread up then and do a recap for those who'd like know.

I do believe though now that this thread has run its course.

[Swingit]

Trying to justify half of what I see sound guys doing these days is almost impossible.

[ghostjs]

how rude. hope he gets run over or something. also i love the tone on your bass.

[Tbirdbassist]

Originally Posted by Slax

I've had gigs too where I felt I couldn't hear myself and thought it just all sounded like mud. Then went to the crowd after and they said it sounded great. There was one particular show we had the sound guy record to a CD-R for us. The place was a small bar like the one you were talking about... sounded like just straight noise on stage. When I listened to the recording, it sounded perfect.

I'm guess that all has to do with how sound bounces and how it projected clearly into the crowd but wasn't so friendly to the stage.

I'm not sure how to size this place honestly. The stage was actually pretty big with lots of walking room. I'd say it was about 20ft wide by 15-ish ft at the deepest. The room itself was way longer than it was wide, at my guess it was at least 30ft wide. I retract what I said before and think that 200 people could be on the floor before codes/laws start to get broken. I liked the place a lot, good traffic and good vibe.

[CRBMoA]

Interesting thread.

My question, after reading all of this, is WHY would a sound man do something like that?

Also seems like there are two camps. SG haters and the guys that think there might be a reason for such an atrocious act.

I suppose all the guys that would be puttin' the smack on anyone touching their gear would also take offense at someone walking up on stage and picking up their bass and checking it out, you know, to see how it sounds from up there, right?

I'm just sayin'.

[Manndreas]

Originally Posted by Toshiro

Don't cop an attitude, sparky.

Did you miss the smiley face on the end of my last sentence or did just ignore it on your way to rantsville?

Sorry if I sounded harsh. That was not my intent.
I wrote the post at 3-4 in the morning, and I forgot to put a few smilies in there

Originally Posted by Toshiro

For every really good sound person, there are a dozen knob twiddlers who really don't know how to make a good mix. "trust the techs" on goes so far, IMO.

I've mixed bands and I have a pretty good idea of what sounds good and what doesn't. And if I need to hear FoH, I'll walk out there and listen thanks to the miracle of wireless.

Well, I did say that a GOOD soundman should be trusted. And still, when I play a venue for the first time or I get a tech I haven't worked with before, I trust that he knows his job and will make us sound good. And I heed his word until he proves to be an asshat, jerk, totally clueless or all three.

Originally Posted by Toshiro

Granted we're hearing one side of the story, but if I were mixing, I'd have a discussion with the band and tell them what to expect so that if I had to fix something on stage, it wouldn't be a surprise when it happens.

Yeah, that's how everyone should do it. I also make sure I talk to the band, choir or what/whoever I'm working, to make sure we're on the same page, and help them set up, and tweak the equipment if it's rented they're not familiar with.

I also said in an earlier post here, that walking up on stage myself is the last possible resort, and I usually try to talk to the guys on stage through a talkback mic first if they need to fix something.
And even if I enter the stage, I'd walk up in between songs, tell the bassist what's wrong, and explain what I'm doing and why. Just walking right past without saying a word is rude, and the OP's soundman could have handled it differently. Like I've stated earlier.

Originally Posted by Tbirdbassist

Things most certainly did not sound fine. I had trouble hearing myself onstage about 8ft directly infront of the cab. . Couldn't possibly have sounded level with the guitar and drums from the floor.

In any event, it was no communication between me and the soundman which caused this ruckus. Could have been easily avoided had there been, but unfortunately there was not.

We'll be back there in January sometime accord to our booking agency so perhaps I'll dig this thread up then and do a recap for those who'd like know.

I'm confused...Did you have PA-support? In that case, yes, even with your amps volume at 0, you should still be perfectly audible to the audience.

And yeah. No communication is bad. Next time, take time to talk to him about the bands sound, and how you're gonna solve any problems than can, and will, happen. Is it ok for him to come up on stage? Why didn't you have any sound in your monitors? If you're gonna use the same muddy amp, how can you dial in a tone that's audible to you without destroying the FOH mix? stuff like that

And please do tell us how it goes the next time. I'm interested

[bassman312]

Seems like good soundmen are hard to come by. I'm not saying you were right but he could have been polite about it.
I had a similar experience once, where the soundguy told me that when he muted my signal in the PA he could still hear me through everything else and i had to turn the volume down, and this was with a 100 watt Hartke A100 with the volume on 4.
Yeah right

[Bassist4Life]

Originally Posted by Dave Muscato

I generally let the sound guy do his job. If he thinks I'm too loud out front, who am I to disagree? If I can't hear myself, or my band can't hear me... that's what monitors are for... no sense in getting mad at the soundguy about it.

I wouldn't consider this rude at all; in fact I'd thank him later for not interrupting me about it. My job is to play the bass; the soundguy's job is to run sound, which includes setting levels.

Right on.

The bass can get really resonant out in the house. At gigs where you have good house support, you almost don't even need an amp. You could run direct. The amp/cabinet on-stage is for your ears. You signal could be pumped through an on-stage monitor.