"uncle mikes" bar in NYC (rant.)

groooooove · #1 12-28-2008, 10:02 PM

my guitarist is the oldest band member, at 21. im 17, drummer is 19. were all schooled musicians and play funk/jamband/psychedelic original stuff. the guitarist booked a gig for last night at this bar in the city, and asked the guy he was emailing back and fourth if our age was a problem, and he said no. we got to the bar, the bouncer asks for id, sooner or later the owner comes out. he says everyone needs ID to go in the bar. my drummer says okay then well wait till right when we set up, play, and leave immidiately (ive had to do this a few times before.) he says no, if your not 21 years of age you cant step foot in his establishment. when people that came to see us started asking for refunds ($10 at the door, a handfull of people paid and litterally diddnt step foot in the bar yet) he said absolutely no refunds whatsoever. so just for the sake of playing something, the guitarist did a few songs with a djembe player who we know who came to see us. we had to wait outside for about 2 hours for them, because we were his ride home.

the booking guy, bouncer, sound guy, and quite a few people who came to see us were all begging him to just let us play a set and leave right after, and he just diddnt want to hear it. refunds were out of the question.

is it just me, or is it wrong that this guy made a few hundred bucks off of us, and only one band member actually played for the people who paid to see us? i understand not wanting underage people in your bar, but going to and from the stage once? most places just put a big X on my right hand and thats that..

T-Bird · #2 12-29-2008, 01:18 AM

Hi.

While I imagine the owner had the law on his side, that was an immoral thing to do. If there wasn't any other performances there, the "no-refund" policy sounds like a fraud to me as he knew about Your ages and went on regardless.
$10 sounds quite high to me so I don't believe You're just an average band from the streets, but have some name to yourselves already. If that's the case, there will be 10 places that'll take You for every scumback like the one you just met.

Take this as a lesson, and don't get mad, get even. Take every opportunity to tell people about the situation (like in here), don't push it, and make them decide for themselves. After a stunt like that I wouldn't set my foot on that bar, ever.

I did a similar thing with a music shop that had a rather expensive gear of mine (Pearl Custom Z bass drum) on consingment (sp?) and they plain tried to stole it. I was fairly active on that towns (our capitol

) music circuit back then and I didn't keep what happened as a secret. A friend of mine who sometimes visited that shop was once greeted with "Long time, no see. What's up??". When he told them "Whats up" they were really uneasy and tried to weasel themselves out of the conversation. I later found out that I wasn't the only one they tried to scam.

When money is involved it's always a PITA, sorry about Your fans losing money and about the loss of the gig.

Just my 0.02€
Sam

jgsbass · #3 12-29-2008, 04:58 AM

Club owner would lose his liquor license if he got caught. Thats a major risk to take. He should have refunded money as there was no show.

easyvision · #4 12-29-2008, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgsbass

Club owner would lose his liquor license if he got caught. Thats a major risk to take. He should have refunded money as there was no show.

I was always under the impression that if you're not 21 you can be inside a bar, just can't sit at the bar or order alcohol. Although that law may vary state to state. I know when I was in Chicago my ex-girlfriend and I(neither of us were 21 at the time) couldn't sit at the bar we went to with her family but we could sit in other provided seats.

Yeah that's really harsh though. The guy's a scammer. Charging money knowing full well he's not gonna let the band play then not offering a refund? Get the word out about this creep. As someone else said, the $10 cover says to me that you lot have a name for yourselves. Use that and make sure this guy doesn't get away with this again.

Best of luck with future gigs man. Unfortunately, there are gonna be some crappy ones. Just keep your chin up and show the world how awesome you are!

musicpbass · #5 12-29-2008, 10:38 AM

This guy contacted us to play at Uncle Mike's and some other bar.... I thought it sounded like a rip and seems that it was... Stay away from these places. Bar owners are only out for themselves and their bars' "bottom line."

nortonrider · #6 12-29-2008, 10:45 AM

He ripped off your friends by not giving them their money back.

I wouldn't let this go. I would tell EVERYONE I know what happened! Post it on Craigslist, Put an ad in the paper, etc..

This guy is an ass!!! and I would shout it from the rooftops. Screw him!

Eilif · #7 12-29-2008, 12:32 PM

I'm not sure about NYC law, but I've played many gigs in Chicago in bars (even bars that don't serve food) with underaged members. Some bars don't mind the underagers hanging around as long as they don't drink, and some will allow the underage players to only be in the bar when playing. Either way, it was definatley not the right thing for the bar to do to your group.

Joe Nerve · #8 12-29-2008, 12:46 PM

Thanks for the info - I'll be absolutely sure to spread the word. Bars like that go down fast. I'd understand if there was a miscommunication, but the part about not refunding money to people who came to see you is unacceptable to me. Sorry ya had to deal with that.

I wrote a blog a while back (before I think they were called blogs

) about a somewhat similar experience.

http://www.thenerve.info/pay_to_play.htm

paganjack · #9 12-29-2008, 01:02 PM

+1 to the others who have said spread the word. you got screwed over. you have a right to be irritated, so let people know that the owner is a douchebag extraordinaire.

professor_bills · #10 12-30-2008, 04:16 PM

Write a song about it, get even more famous, and when you go on Letterman tell the world what bar the song is about.

Rathead123 · #11 12-31-2008, 05:47 AM

If I understand, the booking guy is not the bar owner? If you didnt ask the bar owner himself about the age problem, he did nothing wrong. Guitar player asked a "guy" if age was a problem. Was this guy the owner? The booking guy begged him to let you play? So the booking guy never mentioned age to the bar owner either.

Why use a "booking guy"? Talk to these owners yourself.

Now granted I believe the owner did nothing wrong about the booking, the ethical thing to do would be to refund the money once he understood the the age problem was not the bands fault. Im with you on that.

AndreasMergner · #12 12-31-2008, 07:08 AM

You can be a bartender or a waitress serving alcohol in NY at age 18. So I don't think there was a legal problem as long as they didn't serve you alcohol.

http://www.abc.state.ny.us/frequently-asked-questions

gweimer · #13 12-31-2008, 07:26 AM

Underage performers is always a tricky situation, although I believe most states have some provisions covering it. Whoever mentioned talking to the owner directly had the right idea. He's the one with the most to lose, and should be the one making the call. Not refunding the money to the guests who were leaving was a poor decision, likely made to try and save the night somehow - and that tactic doesn't usually work very well.

We're currently using a 15-year-old guitarist, and while most places are pretty cool (our drummer is his father, singer his grandmother), we've had a few places that simply said that they couldn't book us. At least we got it up front from the owner, though.

ErebusBass · #14 12-31-2008, 07:26 PM

contract?

Zappstorius · #15 01-01-2009, 01:50 AM

It's always a tough deal with the underaged bandmates, but inexcusable for the club owner to act that way towards you & your fans.

Bad karma for him, good karma for you.

Side note: I've never dealt with as many unorganized people in my whole life then in club owners/managers, booking agents and the like.

Tbirdbassist · #16 01-01-2009, 05:16 AM

I played Uncle Mikes recently/ Me and the drummer are underage but we were still able to play. The bouncer dude tried to give us a problem but the booking guy talked it over.

HOWEVER, after our set the owner tried to give us problem about placing our gear near the entrance/window in the front as we waited for the band after us to finish playing (the drummer of this band had borrowed our drummers snare and high hat stand).

While the place had a pretty good crowd, I really wouldn't recommend playing there. I had a bad vibe about the whole place. The half naked bartender girls are kinda nice, but more than a couple of them we're kinda busted... and the whole idea is just kinda cheesy to be honest.

I also HATE stages with barring/fences in front of the stage.I feel detached from the audience.

AnchorHoy · #17 01-02-2009, 05:40 AM

Quote:

asked the guy he was emailing back and fourth if our age was a problem, and he said no

You did your part by bringing it up well in advance. That was the professional way to handle it

It shouldn't matter that you didn't get the OK directly from the owner. The person you were in contact with was apparently designated to handle artist/venue communication and should reasonably be expected to give a definitive answer to a specific (and Important...) question like that

Count me as another vote for "spread the word"

Psychotic_Hell · #18 01-02-2009, 05:44 AM

Did you piss on his van?

TheVoiceless · #19 01-02-2009, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgsbass

Club owner would lose his liquor license if he got caught. Thats a major risk to take. He should have refunded money as there was no show.

Not true at all. They have written entertainment agreements that they could have signed and been able to play and be in there. They would not be allowed to sit at the bar but they could have sat at a table with and X on there hand. The promoter is to blame. He should have new that the owner had a no exceptions policy.

I have been doing this for 15 years in the New York Metro area and if he wanted to he could have made the exception without fear of penalty. But again its his club and he has a strict policy which I can't blame him for having.

txbasschik · #20 01-04-2009, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheVoiceless

Not true at all. They have written entertainment agreements that they could have signed and been able to play and be in there. They would not be allowed to sit at the bar but they could have sat at a table with and X on there hand. The promoter is to blame. He should have new that the owner had a no exceptions policy.

I have been doing this for 15 years in the New York Metro area and if he wanted to he could have made the exception without fear of penalty. But again its his club and he has a strict policy which I can't blame him for having.

I completely agree.

If the bar owner doesn't want minors playing in his bar, he should have a clear "no minors" policy that his booking person adheres to. To book an underage band, not let them play, take a cover and then not give refunds, is dishonest at best.

Laws regarding minors and alcohol varies from state to state. But just about any bar, anywhere, can find a way to allow minors to perform if they want to. This bar owner just didn't want to.

Bad business.

Cherie