unintentional put-downs?

[baalroo]

So, I've been in a band for a few years now with some pretty good players who I know respect me as a player. They literally begged me to join them a few years back and I contribute more than my fair share of writing, arranging, etc in the group, and they readily acknowledge that fact. If I seem upset at practice for any reason I end up getting phone calls and text messages for the rest of the day from these guys (and gal) to the likes of "hey man, sorry practice went poorly, you seemed a little bummed out, is everything cool?" I'm only stating all this to clarify that I do feel that I'm a respected member of the "team" and that I'm certain that the following was in fact entirely unintentional, and they likely didn't even notice it occurred.

so, here's what happened:

The two guitarists and myself are sitting around watching The Rolling Stones Rock and Roll Circus DVD (which btw, if this isn't in your collection and you like classic rock and roll you need to remedy that immediately) when The Dirty Mac comes on. If you're unfamiliar with The Dirty Mac let me fill you in, it's Eric Clapton on "lead," John Lennon singing and playing "rhythm," Mitch Mitchell on drums, and Keith Richards on bass(and yeah, they freakin tear it up). A bit into the first song they begin to discuss "how it just goes to show how little they thought of keith richards... y'know, relegating him to bass guitar." My first thought had been that they must have thought very HIGHLY of keith to allow him to play a completely different instrument than the one he was known for along side them on their chosen instruments AND how impressive it was that he didn't sound out of place beside them. Still, I digress. The point is that EVEN THOUGH I know these guys didn't mean anything by it and that they express their high regards for me and for what I do on my instrument of choice, their prejudice of viewing guitar as being somehow "superior" to bass still stung just a bit and left a bad taste in my mouth. I remained silent and just let it go, but I still felt like I had somehow received an unintentional put-down.

I'd just like to hear some other stories from people who have maybe been in similar situations where your respective peers have somewhat unintentionally put you down for being a bass player, without even realizing they have done so.

anyone?

[251]

Originally Posted by baalroo

So, I've been in a band for a few years now with some pretty good players who I know respect me as a player. They literally begged me

<snip>

unintentionally put you down for being a bass player, without even realizing they have done so.

anyone?

Reality check. You already know who you are. You already know you're good enough. They trust you enough to show you who they are. Friends should always get some slack when they forget they are equal or their ego takes over for a moment. You don't have to play that game. You can choose to be a spectator & have them buy the next round to prove how good they are. 8-)

[Thankful birds]

Frankly, I agree somewhat with their comment. Let's face some facts here- (1) people don't generally go to see bands to see the bass player. That's exactly why some guitarists and singers have ego problems - they tend to be the center of attention. (2) It is easier to teach a guitar player with no bass experience mediocre root note bass lines that will hold the bottom end, even if it adds very little to the song, than it is to teach a bass player with no guitar experience mediocre guitar lines. As an aside, it's also less noticeable to the listener (See Duff McKagan, Michael Anthony, et. al.)

Those facts in mind, a supergroup is usually a self-indulgent wank fest. So, when crafting this self-indugent wank fest, the players chose Clapton over Richards, presumably assuming that Clapton was a more bankable guitarist that people would want to see. I highly doubt that it was a put down to Richards, who is a helluva lot more tasteful and interesting guitar player than Clapton in my opinion. However, somebody had to play bass and they chose Richards to be in the background instead of Clapton.

With respect to their comment, the fact that they acknowledge that most guitar players can make do as a mediocre bass player, or that Keith Richards, who was used to the spotlight in the Stones was being relegated to the background in The Dirty Mac, is not a comment on your playing or ability.

[baalroo]

Originally Posted by 251

Reality check. You already know who you are. You already know you're good enough. They trust you enough to show you who they are. Friends should always get some slack when they forget they are equal or their ego takes over for a moment. You don't have to play that game. You can choose to be a spectator & have them buy the next round to prove how good they are. 8-)

no doubt man, in fact I found it kinda funny after the initial "sting" from the conversation, that's why I posted it in the "bass humor" section. I was just wanting to hear about other's experiences that might be similar because I imagine it's not that uncommon for little "just the bass player" type comments to slip, even from those who actually normally respect bass players... like in my own story.

[dan stanton]

You may want to remind your friends that Richards was a good bass player. They are kind of right, though. Those songs didn't really need much of a bass player. I've never heard of Lennon playing bass, and there is Clapton, then Richards. That could have been a compliment on Richards.

[baalroo]

Originally Posted by Thankful birds

Frankly, I agree somewhat with their comment. Let's face some facts here- (1) people don't generally go to see bands to see the bass player. That's exactly why some guitarists and singers have ego problems - they tend to be the center of attention. (2) It is easier to teach a guitar player with no bass experience mediocre root note bass lines that will hold the bottom end, even if it adds very little to the song, than it is to teach a bass player with no guitar experience mediocre guitar lines. As an aside, it's also less noticeable to the listener (See Duff McKagan, Michael Anthony, et. al.)

Those facts in mind, a supergroup is usually a self-indulgent wank fest. So, when crafting this self-indugent wank fest, the players chose Clapton over Richards, presumably assuming that Clapton was a more bankable guitarist that people would want to see. I highly doubt that it was a put down to Richards, who is a helluva lot more tasteful and interesting guitar player than Clapton in my opinion. However, somebody had to play bass and they chose Richards to be in the background instead of Clapton.

With respect to their comment, the fact that they acknowledge that most guitar players can make do as a mediocre bass player, or that Keith Richards, who was used to the spotlight in the Stones was being relegated to the background in The Dirty Mac, is not a comment on your playing or ability.

well, the TONE of the conversation was important, and maybe I didn't do too great of a job portraying the conversation effectively. It basically boiled down to a very clear, "keith isn't as good, so OBVIOUSLY he should play a bass guitar since it's an inferior instrument" sort of thing.

The funniest part was that IMO keith knocked it out of the freakin park on those songs that are on that DVD!

anyhow, I really wasn't trying to be all whinge-y here, I just thought it was a funny little anecdotal story about the ingrained perception of the bass player in a rock n'roll format, and how even players who are normally very understanding of the important role of bass in rnr can still fall victim to the old stereotypes!

[dan stanton]

First live band I was in, the piano player said I just do the thump-thump.

[dmusic148]

Gotta nip this stuff in the bud, if it bothers you. See, whenever something like this happens to me, I immediately turn and say "Umm, what the f*** is THAT supposed to mean?!?!?"
I do this with a broad grin on my face to let them know I'm not actually angry, they stammer a bit and make up excuses for why they said it, I insult them a bit, and we laugh it off. Done.

[Fetusyolk]

Originally Posted by dan stanton

First live band I was in, the piano player said I just do the thump-thump.

does that mean he does the tap-tap? maybe the poke-poke?

[baalroo]

Originally Posted by dan stanton

First live band I was in, the piano player said I just do the thump-thump.

lol

I have to say though, that sounds pretty intentional to me.

[Munjibunga]

Jeez, man UP! I mean EVERYBODY knows that bass is much easier to play than any other instrument in the band. Get over it.

[dan stanton]

I think he tinkled the ivories.
He was that stupid. It was unintentional.

[ysand]

Yes, it IS THE EASIEST in classic rock music.

[champbassist]

Originally Posted by Thankful birds

Frankly, I agree somewhat with their comment. Let's face some facts here- (1) people don't generally go to see bands to see the bass player. That's exactly why some guitarists and singers have ego problems - they tend to be the center of attention. (2) It is easier to teach a guitar player with no bass experience mediocre root note bass lines that will hold the bottom end, even if it adds very little to the song, than it is to teach a bass player with no guitar experience mediocre guitar lines. As an aside, it's also less noticeable to the listener (See Duff McKagan, Michael Anthony, et. al.)

+1 Honesty FTW.

[Cabazon]

Originally Posted by baalroo

It basically boiled down to a very clear, "keith isn't as good, so OBVIOUSLY he should play a bass guitar since it's an inferior instrument" sort of thing.

They may have meant it more in that they feel Clapton is better at guitar, so Keith should not be playing guitar in place of Clapton.

I don't get any of the "bass is inferior" business because in the two groups I play with, I'm disguised as a drummer. One guitarist in one of the groups, however, openly shows he has no respect for bass, and thinks he's better at bass than any bassist, even though he can't even play guitar very well.

[riotorgun]

the singer in my band also "plays" guitar if you call learning michelangelo batio shred badly an bein unable too play a 3chord song playing once said "oh now ive got my new guitar you can play it in the band if you wanna step up from bass",he didnt see how it could be insulting cos in his mind guitar is superior.

[Herrlster]

Seriously, that bothered you? What are you 16?

[standupright]

i regularly mount and dry hump the musicians in the groups i play in. seems to keep everyone in line.

[Phalex]

Originally Posted by standupright

i regularly mount and dry hump the musicians in the groups i play in. seems to keep everyone in line.

How do you think the band would sound with two bass players??

[bassteban]

Originally Posted by Phalex

How do you think the band would sound with two bass players??

Group grope