Useless sound engineers

[Thunderfly]

Hi

Just wondering if anyone has had any amusing-now-but-ready-to-kill-them-then problems with sound guys who haven’t got a clue what they’re doing. You know the ones I mean, they know beggar all about actual sound engineering but know how to plug the PA in, so pass themselves off as engineers.

I did a gig a few years ago for a St. Patrick’s night party at a university. Quite a big event, we were in a huge marquee jam packed with a good 700 odd drunken students. Alarm bells should have started ringing when the sound guy ‘forgot’ to bring enough monitors and also ‘forgot’ the DI box for me. So he connected me to the PA via an output on my effects pedal. As I was effectively using my amp as a monitor for my bass, it all sounded good, however, as I couldn’t hear anything that was coming out of the actual PA, it wasn’t until three songs into the set during a bass solo I realised that looping the PA through my pedal caused it to get very confused, running through all my-pre set effects with every hit of the string, in between cutting out at random points. I was ready to murder the git when I hollered at him to get his @rse over and sort it out when he shuffled over and uttered those immortal words ‘oh yeah, I thought it sounded like something was going wrong’. So instead of sorting it you just chose to stand there looking like a wally doing nothing!!!!!!

I’m sure some of you poor lot have had far worse happen, I’d love to hear it though as a way or identifying these problems way before I even get on stage.

Cheers guys!

[Vorago]

We once arrived 3 hours before we had to play, the PA was set up 2 hours before we had to play and those ***holes refused to soundcheck us until we were actually on the stage playing our set.

[Thunderfly]

That would have tipped me over the edge!!!!!

I think a lot of sound guys (and gals) forget that they are being paid to do a service. We used to use a guy who would set up, sound check, then 2 songs into it would sod off for a curry, so if anything went wrong mid-set, there would be no-one to sort it. We fired him pretty quickly

[Vorago]

Also, a fair amount of so called soundmen in the lower ranges of gigs (small, cheap) have the goodies, but they don't have the skills. Lotsa gear, expensive gear but no clue how to properly use it.

[XansNiceSweater]

Once I had the sound guy switch the monitor signal and the PA signal. So all the audience heard was kick and snare with a little guitar.
We heard everything perfectly.

He was very, very drunk, and usually is.

[ron mexico]

I played at place that had two guys like that. One would sit back at the board with a confused look on his face while the other stood two feet in front of each speaker and said that everything "sounded real good". Somehow they failed to notice that almost everything had some feedback going. We would have been better off doing it ourselves.

I'm not saying I'm a great sound guy, but I do have a basic knowledge of how things work back there. It's not going to sound great with me doing it, but it won't sound bad either.

[Freaky Fender]

Played a place once where the guys started micing the drumset, with the snare mic on the bottom head... Surprisingly it didn't sound bad, but I think it was the snare drum to begin with. Anyone else and it would have sounded like a box of BBs. Also, the guy took a DI from my amp, and told me I was too loud, and that I was clipping out. I pushed the -20 DB button on the back of my amp...and he never adjusted the level. I have a feeling he just, for whatever reason, didn't really see a need for the bass, especially in a band like this where I play counter-point for almost every melody... .

Edit: I think it was because he had no other experience except with crappy metal tribute acts.

[chakah]

nothing like monitor / pa feedback while the sound guy is off chasing chicks at the other end of the bar.

+1 - never have a friend do sound for your band, next time i'd get a wireless setup and do it all myself

[bnutz]

There's a guy who runs sound at a club I work at several times a month, and although he's a decent engineer, his attitude is horrible.

He's one of these "there's only one way to do things" kind of guys. He'll hassle the drummer because he doesn't like the way the drums are tuned (when they're really tuned fine) or wants to stick an extra pillow in the kick. He swore he heard a hum in the bass channel once that nobody else heard and had me completely re-route my signal and eventullly turn my amp off and ran me only through his DI (although since I've started bringing my Avalon U5 to the gig he's had nothing but glowing reviews for my tone). When you ask "Can you pull some highs out of the monitors, they're ripping my head off?", he'll tell you why they need to be there and how it's you that actually has the problem. The minute we step onto the stage to start setting up, we start the "So what do you think it's going to be tonight?" bets.

Although lately, he's getting more work elsewhere and we're getting to work with other engineers in the same club. Whew!

Also... I haven't done a ton of high profile stuff, but the few "big-time" gigs I have done, everyone (foh and monitor engineers, stage crew, etc.) has been really cool and understand that everyone needs to work together. I really believe that people get hired not just because they're good at what they do, but because they are also good human beings. There's a reason that local clubs and venues are populated with idiots: the competent, cool engineers have been hired on to better gigs.

-b

[NJW]

Although - try being an in house engineer and having to work with 90% idiot bands and perhaps a good one once a month.

[JOHNNY CHINGAS]

Originally Posted by Vorago

We once arrived 3 hours before we had to play, the PA was set up 2 hours before we had to play and those ***holes refused to soundcheck us until we were actually on the stage playing our set.

Im one of those guys who usually just let everything go. I figure lifes too short. However this would piss me off to no end. Someone would be getting hurt.

[LumpyGravy]

Sound engineers.... Not all deserve that title. Out here in SoCal, I think The Key Club in Hollyweird and Morongo Casino have excellent staff. They were really interested in making sure we sounded pristene. They even came out and asked about our sound. Levels were great. They paid attention to solos. On the other hand, The Whiskey a Go Go was a lot different. Besides being in a cattle call environment, they adjusted levels as you played. Then they were gone. Feedback was terrible and I remember the stage monitor tech was just learning how to run the board. Yuck!
We occasionally use this one guy for outside gigs. His problem is that he needs a vehicle to lug his stuff. Also, has some "back Problem". Although, he is a "nice" guy, he needs to get some knowledge. Feedback is not an effect my vocalist likes to use. I xlr out of my fx rack. He bitches that the signal is way to hot. Well there are sliders and gain settings to fix that. His problem is that he has all the gains decked out and heavy reverb effects.
I think if it is possible to get a sound engineer that will even work with you at practice and learn your music and listen to how the band defines their sound. HE/she can literally be the "silent" bandmate. Sound techs can seriously help or hurt your event.

[FoHBass]

Had a few I'd be embarrassed to call sound engineers. One guy was an ex-bandmate of the drummer, and was hired to do sound for two gigs for my old band. His fee was $200 per show, because, according to him, he needed to bring his whole PA rig, which was about three times too big for the room we were in. At the first gig, he complained my bass cabinet was being picked up by the drum mics (also unnecessary for the size of the room) and moved it behind the kit. This way, not only was it still being picked up by drum mics, but I also had the luxury of not hearing a single damn note I played for the whole two hour set. Second gig was worse. Aside from feedback problems throughout the night, we also found out from a couple people during our break, that there was absolutely no vocals in the mix. I found him passed out drunk in the booth with an empty bottle of Jim Beam by him. I woke him up, told him the sound had been off for a while, and that we weren't happy with him, and he told me it's not his fault, his buddy was supposed to be behind the board, the buddy that he had sent back to his place (20 minutes away) to get a cable. Then we found out from more friends of the band that he had passed out and slept through most of the first gig, too, only waking when the music stopped. After not making enough at the second show to even pay him, he tried to raise his price by $100 per show, saying he had to work more than he intended. We didn't pay him at all, and told him it was because we don't pay sound engineers to get trashed and sleep through shows.

The same guy later on reconciled with the drummer, then asked him to come to his studio to play on some tracks. The catch? The songs were so good, our drummer (who himself was very skilled) had to pay to play on them. Of course, he didn't.

[WJGreer]

We recently worked with a guy who was filling in for the normal guy at one a bar gig we play monthly in Boulder. This guy wanted to mute every microphone except the singer's until he was convinced that the mic was necessary.

Resultingly, the first 10 to 20 seconds of whatever backup vocal lines any of us sang were lost. Announcements, jokes, the name of the soloist in the last song - all lost. As an added advantage, I got to look like an idiot talking into a mic that was not turned on for most of the night.

[thumpbass1]

I'm so greatful that the band I'm in now owns its' own P.A.
system. We also aren't afraid to let clubs know ahead of time that we
will handle our own mixing if they happen to have a decent
in house P.A. system that we will use our own sound person and
thats that period. Naturally their in house person can be there
to oversee things a bit but we insist that our own person
is going to set levels and do the e.q. work. So far its worked
out with no problems.

[John Wentzien]

I've found out "The more you complain - the worse you will sound" Most sound guys are gonna do it their way no matter what you say, need, or want. They will just shut you down if you bitch about anything....

[Ben B]

One time we played at a club and the sound guy showed up 30 minutes after our start time. He rushed through the set up. He maybe spent 2 minutes sound checking the drums and a minute or so with the vocals, then we had to start.

Needless to say, nothing sounded right. We made it through the first set, but it was miserable.

[bassman1185]

Originally Posted by LumpyGravy

I xlr out of my fx rack. He bitches that the signal is way to hot. Well there are sliders and gain settings to fix that.

Man, I feel you on that... My band played a show a couple of weeks ago, and the sound guy had really nice gear (about twice as much as the room and event really needed, but it's better to be safe than sorry in this kind of situation), but as soon as I gave him my DI signal from my amp, he complained that it was too hot and asked me to turn my gain down. I asked him politely if there was anything he could do to reduce HIS gain, to which he replied that the gain was all the way down and that I was still clipping the mixer.

I know that I was shooting him a line-level signal into a mic-level input, but I also know that the mixer he was using not only had a gain attenuater, but also a line/mic switch for the input, so that was another 30 db or so pad. I have used the exact same board before (I am an A/V tech). I decided to choose my battles, though, and complied. I figured it would be better to just turn my gain down a bit and deal with it.

[Mickey Shane]

Originally Posted by Vorago

We once arrived 3 hours before we had to play, the PA was set up 2 hours before we had to play and those ***holes refused to soundcheck us until we were actually on the stage playing our set.

That just sounds like the policy of an 'A-room'. 'A' meaning what you refered to in your post. I can't remember the last time that our band was allowed to soundcheck, or load in after 3pm.

We have our own soundman, who receives an even cut. He plays bass in a Rush tribute band, so we have another guy to use for back-up when he has to gig. Both soundmen know the system and can guess the room eq for starting our show. Then they are quick to maximize the sound experience. Repeat venues are recorded in log books and are easy to set up.

Do not skimp in this area. Some bands will run their systems from the stage. This practice is OK, but it misses the chance to rider the faders for rhythms and leads, work the vocal effects, and change eq for different songs.

The FOH is what the audience hears. Your band is judged solely by this sound (and the singer's looks). If your bass doesn't sound as good or better through the FOH than it does through your rig, something is wrong.

EDIT: On Topic: I've read the above posts and can to relate to all of those miseries more times than I care to count.

[Warpeg]

We've had our own sound man for about 5 years. Progressively, he actually been drinking more than anyone in the band--an amazing feat, believe me. Anyway, we had a gig last friday. It was a 200+ person show with a few signed groups coming in from Canada. The gig was in Ohio; it was a long drive for these guys. The deal for him was simple and agreed upon: he provides sound for my band and the Canadian bands, he gets $400 in return. Well, he got smashed drunk, couldn't control the squealing feedback, thought that the bass drum was the only sound that should come out of the PA, and passed out cold just before the last band played! Someone finally got him conscious and leaned him up against the FOH board. I won't even discuss how terrible it sounded. I haven't even gotten to the worst part. He turned all the power amps and lights off midway into their set! The band was trying to be reasonable with him, but the dude started throwing fists at them like an angry mosher. He is in his mid-50's, they are in their early 20's! Needless to say, we relieved the guy of his duty and told him f--- off. It was like a circus and we felt like idiots.