Venue tv's with the volume *on*...

[txbasschik]

Originally Posted by rusty66

Also, Dj's that wont shut the hell up and you spend 15 minutes waiting on stage for him to finish, so you can start. That usually after he has played all the songs on your set list. I hate DJ's............1.....................2........... .........3 ahhhh feel better now.

rusty

I hates me some DJ's, too. They either cut into the band's time, or they flat take the band's job altogether.

Same goes for karaoke. Every time I've played a place that has karaoke on first, the karaoke dude cuts into the band's time. "Dude, we go on at 9:30. Its 9:00. We still need to set up." "But I still have people on my list!"

AAAARRGGGHHH!!!

Cherie

[memphissound]

All this goes to show that you should never take the stage without a written agreement. It doesn't have to be long, or fancy. But it should spell out the basics: times, conditions, money.

If the venue is not willing to do this, it's not a step up on the ladder of success.

peace,
memphissound <><

[txbasschik]

Originally Posted by memphissound

All this goes to show that you should never take the stage without a written agreement. It doesn't have to be long, or fancy. But it should spell out the basics: times, conditions, money.

If the venue is not willing to do this, it's not a step up on the ladder of success.

peace,
memphissound <><

Cha, I wish. I don't do the booking.

And, really, there aren't many places we play that would deal with us by contract. At our level of the game, no one does it. Because there are so many bands here, the venue can just hire someone else, you know?

Now, we're just getting into places where you have to book through a promotor, who may book for a number of venues. Gone up a rung on the ladder, I suppose. (Although I don't see where the promotor is getting us any more money than we made before...hrm.)

If *I* were dealing with this promotor, instead of our drummer, I think I would make *her* work with us on contract, merely because she hasn't done much for us, earnings-wise.

But most of the direct-booked venues we play are too, um, "informal" (if that's the word I'm looking for) for contracts.

Cherie

[memphissound]

If you write it up right it's an easy sell.

Just show the venue mgmt. that it protects them also.

Times: They know when you'll be there to set-up and play and that you won't bug out early.
Conditions: They know that you have their patrons enjoyment as top priority.
Money: Spelled out so there's no argument at the end of the night.

It's the music BUSINESS.

peace,
memphissound <><

[txbasschik]

Originally Posted by memphissound

If you write it up right it's an easy sell.

Just show the venue mgmt. that it protects them also.

Times: They know when you'll be there to set-up and play and that you won't bug out early.
Conditions: They know that you have their patrons enjoyment as top priority.
Money: Spelled out so there's no argument at the end of the night.

It's the music BUSINESS.

peace,
memphissound <><

Never had any real problems with times or money from venues.

Except when UT's got a game on Saturday night.

Sadly, that's a very common practice here, making the band wait 'til the game is over. (Doesn't happen much downtown, but in the 'burb pubs, its all too common.) If you won't go along, you don't get booked again. Period. You can have a contract that says you'll start at 9 no matter what's on tv, if you like, but don't expect to be booked with that.

My deal is mostly with the sound. OK, have the tv on if you just gotta. But turn the sound off. If the venue agrees to that, I'm happy.

But that promoter...*she's* the one who gives us b.s. over money and times. She got us free gigs, promising that if we were liked, we'd get paid gigs. But when we tried to book again, she said we'd have to not only play more free shows at that particular venue, but *give her 15% of our tips*!!! We told her that if she wants 15% of anything, she'll have to get us paid gigs. She'll get no tip money.

She books us for 10 p.m., then calls at the last minute to say we'll play at 8, and we'd better hurry. GRRR!!! I have sitters to schedule!!!

She does stuff like that a lot.

*She's* the one we need a contract with, because I don't think we can trust her at all. She books a lot of venues around here, but I wish we didn't have to deal with her at all.

Cherie

[memphissound]

Well, here's a nickle's worth of free advice from an "experienced" (older) player.

Get this book:
"Music Law: How to Run Your Band's Business"
http://www.amazon.com/Music-Law-Your...8798855&sr=8-1

It's the best $30 you'll ever spend for the band.

It covers 99% of everything you'll need. And it has sample contracts you can use and modify as necessary.

peace,
memphissound <><

[QORC]

most places won't do contracts. If you demand a contract, you won't be booked. it's that simple.

here's the basic deal, folks. Unless you are a wildly popular band in your area, you really are not in a good bargaining position for anything. you are part of the "help" - an employee. Not much different than the bartender, really. You are there to do what they want you to do. You either do it, or you find somewhere else to play. There are probably a hundred bands that are chasing each venue. You are expendable.

[memphissound]

Well, that maybe so for some venues. But it's only because we've allowed ourselves to be used that way. And I guarantee the bartender knows: when he is supposed to be there, what he is expected to do, and how he will be paid.

For TXBASSCHIK, she's got a "Promoter". Even if she doesn't get an agreement with the venue, she ABSOLUTELY NEEDS a contract with the promoter.

peace,
memphissound <><

[Ricky Daion]

Originally Posted by memphissound

Well, that maybe so for some venues. But it's only because we've allowed ourselves to be used that way. And I guarantee the bartender knows: when he is supposed to be there, what he is expected to do, and how he will be paid.

For TXBASSCHIK, she's got a "Promoter". Even if she doesn't get an agreement with the venue, she ABSOLUTELY NEEDS a contract with the promoter.

peace,
memphissound <><

+1

[Lazylion]

IME the music "business" is the most un-businesslike business in the world.


Good thing we're in it for the love, huh?

[txbasschik]

Originally Posted by memphissound

Well, that maybe so for some venues. But it's only because we've allowed ourselves to be used that way. And I guarantee the bartender knows: when he is supposed to be there, what he is expected to do, and how he will be paid.

For TXBASSCHIK, she's got a "Promoter". Even if she doesn't get an agreement with the venue, she ABSOLUTELY NEEDS a contract with the promoter.

peace,
memphissound <><

QORC is correct, and so are you.

In the Austin area, if you walk into a bar with a contract, and you're not a "big" act, they will laugh you all the way out the door, and then call one of a jillion other bands that will play without a contract. Contract + Not-A-Bigtime-Act = No Gigs in Austin.

That being said, I agree that we *do* need a contract with the promoter. She relays the time, payment and other gig info to us from the venues. She books us at the venues. Since she isn't giving us what she's promised us, with either time frames or pay, and since she is demanding 15% of gigs where we have no minimum pay, and our tips...we need a contract that will protect our interests, since she is *not* protecting our interests. (Nor hers, apparently.)

My husband's band has to use the same promoter. She got them the same free gig at the same venue she'd booked us. Sadly for them, they were not able to get as many people to come to their show, and they only made $8. She insisted on her cut. So...they put a dollar bill in an envelope and mailed it to her. She was livid, but they told her that this *was* her cut, too bad, get some decent paying gigs and everyone makes money.

The woman is unclear on the concept of music promotion, evidently.

Cherie

[txbasschik]

Originally Posted by Lazylion

IME the music "business" is the most un-businesslike business in the world.


Good thing we're in it for the love, huh?

Sho'nuff.

You know, when we booked all our own gigs, we got good minimums or percentages, and we *never* had "mixups" over time or pay. But this promoter chick is booking for so many of the venues around here, there are not very many places we can get into without having to work with her. I'd rather play the little bars close to home, for love, since we made the same kind of money playing them, without the extra aggravation, time and travel and gasoline. Let's ya feel the love much more stongly that way!

Cherie

[QORC]

we don't use a promoter or agent, thank God. We don't work enough to get them interested in us. that's ok. We've found enough places in our area on our own. Until we get where we can't get gigs on our own, we won't go with an agent. They really can be horrible to work with. I was put out of a band because the agent convinced the rest that they could find someone better. Guess what? they no longer exist. Gee. They found out that I did a lot to promote the band and keep it together.

Contracts? We'd be laughed out the door in a bar situation.

[txbasschik]

Originally Posted by QORC

we don't use a promoter or agent, thank God. We don't work enough to get them interested in us. that's ok. We've found enough places in our area on our own. Until we get where we can't get gigs on our own, we won't go with an agent. They really can be horrible to work with. I was put out of a band because the agent convinced the rest that they could find someone better. Guess what? they no longer exist. Gee. They found out that I did a lot to promote the band and keep it together.

Contracts? We'd be laughed out the door in a bar situation.

Yeah, I really feel like we could do better on our own. Heck, we *have* done better on our own. If we didn't have to go through that promoter, we woudn't.

The way it seems to work down here is that a promotor will hook up with a bunch of bars, and get those bars to let her do all their booking. So, if you wanna play that bar, you have to use their promoter. And yes, it gets us a *lot* of gigs, but not many that pay more than 10% of the bar, or tip with the promise of pay later.

Which has turned out to be b.s. -- *always*. And not just for our band. Hubby's band, and two others we know of, have the same problem. With the same promoter.

This past weekend was *awesome*! Hubby's old band, my current band, and the old band we were in together, all got up and played at our favorite bar. It was mainly a Knowbodys gig, but everyone got plenty of time to play.

There is video footage of Chrome Wheels on our page (myspace.com/thechromewheels). I'm on three of them.

The Knowbodys showcased our newest songs, which we will record tomorrow night at The Sweat Box. The crowd favorites were "I Am Here For You", a gorgeous female metal ballad drenched with guitar, and "Sleeping The Day Away", a garage/alternative story of, well...sleeping the day away!

I can't wait to get the cd done.

Oh, yeah...the tv was on. No sound. And no one was watching it!!!

(Reposting the gig report in the appropriate thread.)

Cherie

[QORC]

I think it must vary a lot, city to city. In DC, honestly, you needed an agent to play almost anywhere that was decent in the Virginia burbs. And we found one easy to work with that was happy with our 3-4 times a month schedule.

In Philly, agents have a big role, yes, but there seems to be a lot of places to book where you don't need one. And some agents will let you book with them just on a case-by-case basis instead of signing your whole destiny over to them. That's ok with us.

Personally, I liked the one we had in DC. The experiences I've with agents up in Philly have not left me feeling very positive. Most don't even want to talk to a band that isn't playing 2-3 times per week.

[txbasschik]

Originally Posted by QORC

I think it must vary a lot, city to city. In DC, honestly, you needed an agent to play almost anywhere that was decent in the Virginia burbs. And we found one easy to work with that was happy with our 3-4 times a month schedule.

In Philly, agents have a big role, yes, but there seems to be a lot of places to book where you don't need one. And some agents will let you book with them just on a case-by-case basis instead of signing your whole destiny over to them. That's ok with us.

Personally, I liked the one we had in DC. The experiences I've with agents up in Philly have not left me feeling very positive. Most don't even want to talk to a band that isn't playing 2-3 times per week.

Those agents prolly think that if you don't play out much, they won't make anything off you. But that's silly, because they make money from every booking, no matter how many you have.

That's why I love to play the Lone Star, and Remington's. You don't need a promotor to play there. Lone Star is all about the love, and the wonderful crowd, and the funky vibe, and having fun. Remington's treats us beautifully, and pays decently, too. And there is NO PROMOTOR!!!

They do leave the tv on, but the sound is off. Lone Star has only two small tv's. They have a big one, but it is kept in a corner with a throw over it...it is for movie and game nights, only, and there is no game night on Saturday, 'cause that's band night. Remington's has a buncha tv's over the bar, with one large one, but they always keep the sound off while the band is playing.

I love those bars!

Cherie