Wynton Marsalis: Sage or Idiot?

[caeman]

http://community.seattletimes.nwsour...lug=marsalis23

Over the years, Marsalis has led a one-man crusade against amplifying the bass. Cornish bass man Michael Catts felt the full fury of that crusade, as Marsalis railed at "the basic stupidity" of bass amps, comparing them to a viola player in a string quartet showing up with a microphone.

Did he really just compare an instrument that plays in the mid treble range to an instrument in the bass range?

[Rockman]

Originally Posted by caeman

http://community.seattletimes.nwsour...lug=marsalis23



Did he really just compare an instrument that plays in the mid treble range to an instrument in the bass range?

And a group setting without drums to a group setting with drums? Thats really dumb, the drums are why we need to amplify.

[bongomania]

I've long been peeved by his narrow-minded and very uptight claims about the history and nature of jazz... now to hear he thinks bass amps are "stupid" makes me even less interested in anything else he has to say.

[Rickett Customs]

Anyone that will say, "We live in an era of pure sell-out", turns off my hearing. I could care less what he thinks of amplification.

I'd much rather listen to Branford or Jason talk, to tell you the truth....


That is all.

[PhiDeck]

Too bad that when Ken Burns made "Jazz" he was so influenced by Wynton Marsalis. Stopping in 1960, and not even mentioning Wes Montgomery, is typical WM.

[TheBasicBassist]

Idiot. If for nothing else, for thinking that his opinion is the golden truth.

[Roy Vogt]

Ask Christian McBride. He developed a bad case of tendonitis after playing in Wynton's band with no amp. It will work if drummers realize they are not playing with amplification. Very few do, sadly.
I think it speaks volumes that Rufus Reid, Ron Carter, the late Ray Brown and every other top Jazz Upright player I know amplifies their instrument.
That said, buy or rent the DVD "Chops" about the Jazz At Lincoln Center Ellington Competition to see a different and very cool side of Wynton.

[SpamBot]

I won't call him either. I agree with everything he says within the context of his own music, but only then.

[SteveC]

Sage, idiot and some of his comments have even been called racist.

[bassCanadabass]

I think his issue with bass amps is that they are unnatural. When people use bass amps, the band often gets louder, and not for musical reasons. Bass amps generally don't sound as good as acoustic bass. Being a younger player (just entering first year university) I see the issues that the Marsalis talks about all the time. Kids playing really loud, trying to play as many notes as possible. It's unfortunate how regularly I hear things things like "my favorite jazz musician is Slash". If it wasn't for people like Wynton, I'm not sure if straight ahead jazz would be around, or as accessible as it is today (which isn't saying much). At the Toronto jazz fest this year, there isn't one group remotely close to being straight ahead playing in the mainstage concert series.

[JmJ]

I Went to hear the Blues Summit featuring James Cotton, Taj Mahal, Shemeika Copeland, Pinetop Perkins and Hubert Sumlin at the Rose theater (Lincoln Center)last week. The first set had the Bass Man playing on upright and the second set on Electric Bass. During the first half I could tell some one was playing bass but I what notes he was choosing was anyone's guess. When he played the Electric Bass you could actually hear him play.This from the Rose theater website:

"Rose Theater is the result of a collaboration between Jazz at Lincoln Center, Artistic Director, Wynton Marsalis and the top international theater planners and engineers. Designed acoustically as the premier jazz performance hall in the world, Rose Theater utilizes ambitious design elements such as a retractable concert shell ceiling and a sophisticated acoustical curtain and banner system to help tailor the sound quality of the hall for individual performances".

The sound quality of the theater was severely lacking for clarity for this particular show.
From this whole scenario I can only draw the conclusion that Wynton does not like Bass.

[TheBasicBassist]

Originally Posted by JmJ

From this whole scenario I can only draw the conclusion that Wynton does not like Bass.

Just a funny off-topic moment. When I read this, I remembered the recent Rob Trujillo thread and thought, "Wynton would fit in great w. the egos in Metallica. Lars and James would love him!" (Because the members of Metallica are regularly blamed for being bass-haters.)

Now back to your regular thread. Sorry for the OT moment.

[wideyes]

Originally Posted by JmJ

I Went to hear the Blues Summit featuring James Cotton, Taj Mahal, Shemeika Copeland, Pinetop Perkins and Hubert Sumlin at the Rose theater (Lincoln Center)last week. The first set had the Bass Man playing on upright and the second set on Electric Bass. During the first half I could tell some one was playing bass but I what notes he was choosing was anyone's guess. When he played the Electric Bass you could actually hear him play.This from the Rose theater website:

"Rose Theater is the result of a collaboration between Jazz at Lincoln Center, Artistic Director, Wynton Marsalis and the top international theater planners and engineers. Designed acoustically as the premier jazz performance hall in the world, Rose Theater utilizes ambitious design elements such as a retractable concert shell ceiling and a sophisticated acoustical curtain and banner system to help tailor the sound quality of the hall for individual performances".

The sound quality of the theater was severely lacking for clarity for this particular show.
From this whole scenario I can only draw the conclusion that Wynton does not like Bass.

Thanks for that, JmJ. Good, solid input from personal experience. I wonder if Wynton just likes it better when HE's onstage and doesn't give much thought to the experience of the audience?

Awesome thread title, BTW

[Staccato]

Based on your quote, Wynton appears to be a purist, and/or traditionalist? He does seem to enjoy early (old) tunes, and styles that preceded electric amps, eh?

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by SteveC

Sage, idiot and some of his comments have even been called racist.

The question is do you think his statements are racist? If so, say so.

For what it is worth, Wynton Marsalis reminds me of Spike Lee when he first became famous. He was a young guy who was clearly smart and opinionated, but who didn't seem to have much regard for others opinions.

The difference is that Spike Lee today is certainly more mellow and less dogmatic than Wynton Marsalis. Wynton Marsalis, however, seems to be right where he was when he became famous almost thirty years ago. I guess that is a by product of basing a career on copying what has been done in the past instead of trying to think of something new.

[Handyman]

I wouldn't call Wynton Marsalis an idiot, just a very dogmatic guy stuck in 1960. His brothers, however, often have something interesting to say.

[cnltb]

Not an idiot, just ignorant to the function of the bass and what it takes to fulfill this role effectively these days ,I'd say.

Or his dogmatic and antiquated views on this issue are more important to him than the music and the requirements of today, as they're his comfort zone , hard to break free from(?).

[azureblue]

is getting at is the way the sound of an upright is felt on stage- all that wood vibrating for a really large area. But is really retro, and, I think if he had his way, we'd be back in the days of Duke Ellington and the 50's and 60's jazz combos that were not amplified. Nothing wrong with that, if that's what you like, and I've played a lot of that period's music. Ray Brown, Slam Stewart, etc., got a huge sound out of the upright. Right now, though, it's a volume battle, and a change of musical taste & balance over the years. The old days, the bass was felt, more than anything.

Most bass amps use small speakers and few have the square footage of vibrating area that an upright has - they can't reproduce that initial attack - the thump when the string is plucked. Yeah, the specs say--- but what the specs say and what happens on stage are two different things. I tried 4- 15's once, but not played loud, and that was the closest I have heard to the feel of an upright. A lot of string release thump. Just a real PITA to haul around. Oh, yeah, and I very carefully played at home through two Magnapans and that felt very "real", too.

Wynton has his opinions. But they don't come out of thin air - they may sound nuts, but they all contain some truth... My two cents- Wynt wants to be a New Orleans version of Clifford Brown with a little Satchmo and Sweets thrown in.. :-) That could be good....

[caeman]

His opinion only seems to hold true for one narrow instance of music playing. Even in a bluegrass band, the upright is amp'd, otherwise, you'd never hear/feel it over the banjo, mandolin and violin wailing away at some tune. And that is a genre of music that worships the bass's part that it plays.

[SteveC]

There is something to be said for preserving the past. It is important, but not necessarily at the expense of forging ahead as well. Why can't both exist? Our group does both old standards and new stuff.

As for the amp thing...does Wynton play with no sound reinforcement whatsoever? Every venue, every occasion? Does he use a mic when he preaches - I mean speaks - to audiences and workshops?

Sometimes I wonder if he's hurting jazz more than helping.