"Kenny G used to be a real jazz player"

[Jake]

While driving home tonight, I dialed in a smooth jazz show on the radio. I am not a smooth jazz fan, but I like to check it out occasionally. Well, the DJ was talking about Gerald Albright and said something like "you jazzheads would know that Gerald Albright replaced Kenny G in Jeff Lorber's band." He also said that "Kenny G used to be a smokin' real jazz player, but has since moved on to smooth jazz."
I guess this DJ thinks that the smooth jazz/instrumental pop that he plays on the show is really jazz. I thought it was kind of funny, but also pretty sad at the same time.

[Aaron Saunders]

When he was playing sloppy, out of tune pentatonics and blues scales with Jeff Lorber?

...or when he's doing the same thing like 20 years later?

[JimmyM]

People consider Jeff Lorber real jazz?

[Damon Rondeau]

Don't get me wrong: I believe that, in all likelihood, Kenny G is going to Music Hell. No Eternal Reward for him, IMHO. I can't agree at all, though, that he Bought That Ticket because he can't play. He can play his ass off. Nah, he's hellbound because his skill serves the master called Insipid Commercial Taste -- He Who Cheapens Something Good. He'd fart into the mic if it made money.

Sloppy, out of tune pentatonics and blues scales, Aaron? You've just described a vast swath of glorious American music.

[Jeremy Allen]

Originally Posted by Damon Rondeau

Sloppy, out of tune pentatonics and blues scales, Aaron? You've just described a vast swath of glorious American music.

Hear, hear! Don't let Kenny G in on this, though, or he might do a "virtual collaboration with" with Robert Johnson.

[Aaron Saunders]

We're not talking delta blues, Damon. To be a "smokin' real jazz player," expectations are a little higher when it comes to technique and harmonic sense.

On Kenny in Lorber's band, Pat Metheny has this to say:

"He had major rhythmic problems and his harmonic and melodic vocabulary was extremely limited, mostly to pentatonic based and blues-lick derived patterns, and he basically exhibited only a rudimentary understanding of how to function as a professional soloist in an ensemble - Lorber was basically playing him off the bandstand in terms of actual music.

But he did show a knack for connecting to the basest impulses of the large crowd by deploying his two or three most effective licks (holding long notes and playing fast runs - never mind that there were lots of harmonic clams in them) at the key moments to elicit a powerful crowd reaction (over and over again). The other main thing I noticed was that he also, as he does to this day, played horribly out of tune - consistently sharp."

[JAUQO III-X]

On the recordings Wizard Island(80) and Galaxian(81) by the "The Jeff Lorber Fusion" Kenny Gorelick(later Kenny G.)played alto, tenor saxophone and Flute and it will surprise most who may take a listen to it,because Kenny G.was really holding his own.

[Marcus Johnson]

Holding his own what?

[ryco]

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

Holding his own what?

uh....nose?

[Heifetzbass]

Ok guys, you may have heard this but, I thought it was worth giving my musical apptitude test in this debate.

You are in an elevator with Kenny G., John Tesh, and Yanni-

You have a gun with one bullet. Who do you shoot first and why?




Answer:_______________

[Aaron Cohn]

Originally Posted by Heifetzbass

You are in an elevator with Kenny G., John Tesh, and Yanni-

You have a gun with one bullet. Who do you shoot first and why?

Definitely not John Tesh. The old NBA on NBC theme music takes him out of the discussion. I think it would have to be Kenny G, not that I advocate violence toward musical ends.

[Audiophage]

Originally Posted by Heifetzbass

Ok guys, you may have heard this but, I thought it was worth giving my musical apptitude test in this debate.

You are in an elevator with Kenny G., John Tesh, and Yanni-

You have a gun with one bullet. Who do you shoot first and why?




Answer:_______________

Yanni, but why do you ask who I would shoot first?

[Marcus Johnson]

Yourself.

[Bassist4Life]

C'mon guys. It's really discouraging to see eveyone picking on Kenny G. I know that he's an easy target, but really... Music is a full-time job for some people and that might mean playing a certain kind of music to make a living. Kenny G. if a very popular artist and I'm sure that he makes a good living.

I think that Michael Manring is one of the most amazing musicians on the planet. He has a ton of recording credits and we all know what he can do with a bass; however, take a look of this list of CD's that he played on. They are in order of popularity (That's $$$).

http://music.barnesandnoble.com/sear...TR=66910&SIG=A

This stuff sells. So does Kenny G. and artists like Yanni and Enya. Some people really dig that stuff and they're gonna buy it.

Go easy on the G man.

Joe

[Damon Rondeau]

Originally Posted by Aaron Saunders

We're not talking delta blues, Damon. To be a "smokin' real jazz player," expectations are a little higher when it comes to technique and harmonic sense.

On Kenny in Lorber's band, Pat Metheny has this to say:

"He had major rhythmic problems and his harmonic and melodic vocabulary was extremely limited, mostly to pentatonic based and blues-lick derived patterns, and he basically exhibited only a rudimentary understanding of how to function as a professional soloist in an ensemble - Lorber was basically playing him off the bandstand in terms of actual music.

But he did show a knack for connecting to the basest impulses of the large crowd by deploying his two or three most effective licks (holding long notes and playing fast runs - never mind that there were lots of harmonic clams in them) at the key moments to elicit a powerful crowd reaction (over and over again). The other main thing I noticed was that he also, as he does to this day, played horribly out of tune - consistently sharp."

When I was a pup I used to care about technique and harmonic sense, particularly if I was fussing over whether to place a musician into the box marked "jazz" or some other box. Jazz is for the "good" musicians, right? Nowadays my horizons are broader, or my tastes are cheaper, or something like that. I'm a lot more impressed with a player who can do something with a few notes than I am in someone who's a technique geek. (With one note on the organ, Jimmy Smith can completely slay me -- that's where I'm coming from. Delta blues? Yeah, it's in there but so's my great-great-grandfather in me...) If someone's reply to that is "well, in jazz standards are higher" I say go ahead and have your jazz your way -- I went there a long time ago and have no interest in going back.

If Kenny G wasn't such a soft jazz ho' nobody would be too interested in saying "he can't play". Clearly he can play and does play -- he's made a lot more records (and money, too, sho' nuff) than any of us has. No, my problem with the G-zoid is that his taste is insipid; he panders to the Muzak-using aspect of our culture -- definitely not the music-loving aspect -- and insofar as he does it under the flag of jazz he insults people who live and love the jazz traditions more seriously.

Metheny wasn't pulling any punches when he tore G a new one in that quote, was he? He went after G's technique, too. I guess, though, that if he went after G's taste and artistry it mighta been a little too close to home. Pot and kettle territory -- maybe not right downtown, maybe not same area code, but close enough. Metheny's been a great friend of jazz tradition and I have a lot of respect for him -- I wore out my vinyl "Bright Size Life" well before the calendar hit 1980. But he's been repeating himself for a long long time, he sure as hell ain't no Gershwin or Golson in the tune-writing department, and if I hear that guitar synth sound anymore I'm gonna turn off the source real quick.

That's my quotient of negativity for the day. I don't like G at all, but I don't pump up myself and my own side by saying he can't play. I prefer to say I really don't like what he plays and, further, that he doesn't show much respect for jazz.

[fourstringdrums]

Originally Posted by Heifetzbass

Ok guys, you may have heard this but, I thought it was worth giving my musical apptitude test in this debate.

You are in an elevator with Kenny G., John Tesh, and Yanni-

You have a gun with one bullet. Who do you shoot first and why?




Answer:_______________

Kenny G and then pistol whip Yanni to death.

[vindy500]

bah its an elevator im sure i could get more than one in a shot

[Heifetzbass]

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

Yourself.

Somehow I knew you'd choose correctly!

You are truly a musician of the first caliber!

Brian

[WillBuckingham]

I've played worse music than Kenny G. does for much less money. I don't get why you guys get such a kick out of ripping on him. He doesn't even use upright bassists, does he?

[Andy Allen]

He's just making a lot of money providing slop for the masses.

So all of you that eat fast-food can give yourselves a big pat on the back for supporting the "Kenny G." of cuisine.

Andy