Ageism

[bassinplace]

Originally Posted by bigboy_78

You're comparing apples and oranges.

Coltrane is a jazz master

Beyonce is jiggly bits and a strong-ish voice.

Beyonce = Donna Summer give or take 20 years.

Coltrane = That bird getting squashed on the highway last night.

Nothing to do with the era of music.

Anyone who refuses to acknowledge that music hasn't really changed much since the mid 20th Century is deluded.

Ha! Agreed, and I dig it. To me, that's great art. Jiggly bits, yeah that too, but not quite as profound. At least to me.

[slobake]

Currently writing another song. I came up with the lyrics and general idea and working on the music with our guitar player who is 18-years-old. I'm drawing inspiration from "Walk of Life" by Dire Straits. Our guitar player Aaron is drawing inspiration from 'I'm Shakin" by Jack White. It should be an interesting hybrid. I wonder if our church is ready for it.

[bassinplace]

Originally Posted by slobake

Currently writing another song. I came up with the lyrics and general idea and working on the music with our guitar player who is 18-years-old. I'm drawing inspiration from "Walk of Life" by Dire Straits. Our guitar player Aaron is drawing inspiration from 'I'm Shakin" by Jack White. It should be an interesting hybrid. I wonder if our church is ready for it.

Just fyi, "I'm Shakin'" isn't Jack White's song. It was originally done by Little Willie John, I believe. The Blasters did a cool cover of it too back in the early 80's. Have fun rockin' the cathedral!

[slobake]

Originally Posted by bassinplace

Just fyi, "I'm Shakin'" isn't Jack White's song. It was originally done by Little Willie John, I believe. The Blasters did a cool cover of it too back in the early 80's. Have fun rockin' the cathedral!

Thanks bro, the classics neve die, they just get updated and re-imagined. I love The Blasters. And we're going to have fun and shake it for the Lord

[Kwesi]

Originally Posted by bigboy_78

Anyone who refuses to acknowledge that music hasn't really changed much since the mid 20th Century is deluded.

This just makes me think you haven't listened to enough music.

[bassinplace]

Originally Posted by Kwesi

This just makes me think you haven't listened to enough music.

Agreed. Music has changed a lot since the 1950's.

[slobake]

Originally Posted by bassinplace

Agreed. Music has changed a lot since the 1950's.

BRING BACK DOO-WOP

On second thought -- no Just my opinion

[Misfit]

Originally Posted by Bloodhammer

Move with the times or get run over by them. I can easily find something new that I like with just a little searching.

Sure you can find something nowdays you like, but the real question is do you like any of it as much as the great music which was made back in the day?

Originally Posted by Bloodhammer

Never judge a musical era on its pop element alone, either. That's most often the product of marketing analysis geared to the lowest common denominator of society - aka "consumer product". It's more of a reflection of the market and societal values of an era than the quality of its musicians.

Sure, the musicians of today are just as good, if not better in some cases, but I argue the songs and the music are not. If you disagree with that, than tell me who the modern groups are that are writing songs and making music as good as The Beatles, Led Zepplin, Pink Floyd, the Eagles or (insert name of great band from decades past)?

I don't think the argument is that musicians themselves have have gone down hill, it's the music and the songwriting that has.

I haven't found very much good "new" music since the early to mid 90's. The only new music now days I can find that I like is new stuff from bands who have been around for a long time. And yes, I tend to avoid popular music and look more "underground", always have. I haven't liked any popular music since grunge died out. That's just my opinion though, it means nothing, so take it with a grain of salt.

[slobake]

Originally Posted by Misfit

Sure you can find something nowdays you like, but the real question is do you like any of it as much as the great music which was made back in the day?



Sure, the musicians of today are just as good, if not better in some cases, but I argue the songs and the music are not. If you disagree with that, than tell me who the modern groups are that are writing songs and making music as good as The Beatles, Led Zepplin, Pink Floyd, the Eagles or (insert name of great band from decades past)?

I don't think the argument is that musicians themselves have have gone down hill, it's the music and the songwriting that has.

I haven't found very much good "new" music since the early to mid 90's. The only new music now days I can find that I like is new stuff from bands who have been around for a long time. And yes, I tend to avoid popular music and look more "underground", always have. I haven't liked any popular music since grunge died out. That's just my opinion though, it means nothing, so take it with a grain of salt.

There was a lot of really bad music getting airplay too at the same time as the bands you mentioned. You don't hear too much of that anymore. Thank whomever I'd mention some if it but I sure to insult someone who has different taste than me. You and I might love Captian Beefheart but back in the day I had deal with a lot of complaints every time I put on the turntable. BTW have you everd hear Cracker? I love the song "Low."

[bigboy_78]

Originally Posted by Kwesi

This just makes me think you haven't listened to enough music.

Okay.....POP music hasn’t changed much in 50 years. Instrumentation and costumes may have changed but the basic harmonic & melodic structures are pretty much the same. My point was that when looking back, people have a habit of comparing the “artist” from the 60’s with the current pop-tart.

Every era has pop-tarts, that are forgotten by everyone but wedding bands.

Every era has artist, who aren’t appreciated at the time by anyone but musicians, but are gradually elevated to hero status.

When Coltrane released Giant Steps, Chubby Checker was doing the twist, and everyone over the age of 30 was probably lamenting that there was no art anymore, not like the old days. (I assume, I wasn’t there).

The idea that new pop music is any more a less vacuous than old pop-music is a fallacy.

[Bloodhammer]

Originally Posted by Misfit

Sure you can find something nowdays you like, but the real question is do you like any of it as much as the great music which was made back in the day?

Absolutely!

Originally Posted by Misfit

Sure, the musicians of today are just as good, if not better in some cases, but I argue the songs and the music are not. If you disagree with that, than tell me who the modern groups are that are writing songs and making music as good as The Beatles, Led Zepplin, Pink Floyd, the Eagles or (insert name of great band from decades past)?

I don't think the argument is that musicians themselves have have gone down hill, it's the music and the songwriting that has.

You're still thinking in terms of "what is/was big at the time" which is a view of the market, not the artists themselves. You like the 60's-70's rock-n-roll-n-rebellion geared market better than the current rap/pop-millionaires-oriented one. Nothing wrong with that, but there were proto boy bands back then and there are rock legends now, despite what 80% of the population wants to hear at a given time.

Originally Posted by Misfit

I haven't found very much good "new" music since the early to mid 90's. The only new music now days I can find that I like is new stuff from bands who have been around for a long time. And yes, I tend to avoid popular music and look more "underground", always have. I haven't liked any popular music since grunge died out. That's just my opinion though, it means nothing, so take it with a grain of salt.

No problem. I get what you're saying. It's hard to sort the wheat from the chaff, but it's in there.

[Misfit]

Originally Posted by slobake

There was a lot of really bad music getting airplay too at the same time as the bands you mentioned. You don't hear too much of that anymore.

True, but there's plent really bad stuff now days as well. I'm willing bet today's bad stuff, and today "good" stuff, won't be remembered in the future.

Originally Posted by slobake

BTW have you everd hear Cracker? I love the song "Low."

I've heard a few of there songs, "Low" being one of them. What I've heard from them didn't really do much for me. They aren't bad though.

[bassinplace]

Originally Posted by slobake

There was a lot of really bad music getting airplay too at the same time as the bands you mentioned. You don't hear too much of that anymore. Thank whomever I'd mention some if it but I sure to insult someone who has different taste than me. You and I might love Captian Beefheart but back in the day I had deal with a lot of complaints every time I put on the turntable. BTW have you everd hear Cracker? I love the song "Low."

I haven't listened to much Cracker, but Key Lime Pie by Camper Van Beethoven was one of my favorite albums back in the day. I need to own that one again.

[Misfit]

Originally Posted by Bloodhammer

You're still thinking in terms of "what is/was big at the time" which is a view of the market, not the artists themselves. You like the 60's-70's rock-n-roll-n-rebellion geared market better than the current rap/pop-millionaires-oriented one.

No, I like what music appeals to me, period. I'm actually a child of 80's and 90's music. I just mentioned those groups because I appreciate them not only for the great music and song writing, but also for there staying power, in terms of them being able to maintain a fan base due to there music being timeless. Trust me, the vast majority of music I like is not and never has been popular with the masses.

I'm not looking only at what was popular at there era, I'm looking at what was good music with good songs. They just happened to popular as well. Are you implying that if The Beatles and Led Zepplin hadn't had commercial success, that somehow there songs would be any less great? There's plenty of huge bands from that era who I think are utter crap (The Grateful Dead, Crosby Stills and Nash...ect).

Popularity aside, you still didn't mention what new bands have songs as a good The Beatles or Led Zepplin. Let's expand it and throw in 60's Motown.

Originally Posted by Bloodhammer

Nothing wrong with that, but there were proto boy bands back then and there are rock legends now, despite what 80% of the population wants to hear at a given time.

Who? I mean that seriously. If there are new legitmate rock groups now days making amazing songs, I'd like to check them out. Because I'm always on the look for good music, the problems I no longer find it. All I can ever find is a bunch of Emo Rock and Indie rock or some mondern Metal bands which are just a wall of noise. It's all garbage.

[Bloodhammer]

Originally Posted by Misfit

I'm not looking only at what was popular at there era, I'm looking at what was good music with good songs. They just happened to popular as well. Are you implying that if The Beatles and Led Zepplin hadn't had commercial success, that somehow there songs would be any less great? There's plenty of huge bands from that era who I think are utter crap (The Grateful Dead, Crosby Stills and Nash...ect).

I honestly think you completely missed my point.

Originally Posted by Misfit

Popularity aside, you still didn't mention what new bands have songs as a good The Beatles or Led Zepplin. Let's expand it and throw in 60's Motown.

Who? I mean that seriously. If there are new legitmate rock groups now days making amazing songs, I'd like to check them out. Because I'm always on the look for good music, the problems I no longer find it. All I can ever find is a bunch of Emo Rock and Indie rock or some mondern Metal bands which are just a wall of noise. It's all garbage.

Mentioning specific bands and holding them up against an arbitrary ruling stick is a pointless conversation. No matter who I mention, you could argue that they suck - and not be wrong. I could do the same because my scale is different from yours. You could wax poetic about the greatness of Alice In Chains and I could just say that they aren't as good as Led Zepplin and that would be that. What's the point?

jmattbassplaya started a thread today about this very thing:

Does anyone else really DISLIKE talking music with people?

[LowBSix]

Old Guys Rule! This is my opinion. It does not require agreement or rudeness when disagreeing...

I enjoy sonic space and variety in music. I don't hear much these days. And that is caused by production...

I get it that the "yutes" of today have been 'quick-processed" and believe they can do anything without knowledge as long as they have the technical side to follow through and clean up the mess.

Compare The Beatles or Steely Dan to contemporary screamo-teckno-grungy-junk punk, etc.

[Misfit]

Originally Posted by Bloodhammer

Mentioning specific bands and holding them up against an arbitrary ruling stick is a pointless conversation. No matter who I mention, you could argue that they suck - and not be wrong. I could do the same because my scale is different from yours. You could wax poetic about the greatness of Alice In Chains and I could just say that they aren't as good as Led Zepplin and that would be that. What's the point?

It's really not comparing one specific band to another one.

Forget I mentioned The Beatles and Zepplin. I'm just asking for a few examples of modern groups who are writing songs and making music that is as good as anything that's been made previously. Or better yet, tell me a modern group who you think makes some of the best music you've ever heard. That request is so generic that no direct comparisons can be made.

[slobake]

Originally Posted by bassinplace

I haven't listened to much Cracker, but Key Lime Pie by Camper Van Beethoven was one of my favorite albums back in the day. I need to own that one again.

I love "Take the Skinheads Bowling"

[Bloodhammer]

Originally Posted by Misfit

It's really not comparing one specific band to another one.

Forget I mentioned The Beatles and Zepplin. I'm just asking for a few examples of modern groups who are writing songs and making music that is as good as anything that's been made previously. Or better yet, tell me a modern group who you think makes some of the best music you've ever heard. That request is so generic that no direct comparisons can be made.

Then what's the point?

It sounds to me like you've already made up your mind and are challenging me to surprise you. I promise that the newer stuff I like falls into one of your derogatory categories such as wall-of-noise-modern-metal-garbage and won't mean anything to you.

On the bright side, though, you are on your way to being an awesomely cranky old man!

[slobake]

Originally Posted by Misfit

True, but there's plent really bad stuff now days as well. I'm willing bet today's bad stuff, and today "good" stuff, won't be remembered in the future.


I've heard a few of there songs, "Low" being one of them. What I've heard from them didn't really do much for me. They aren't bad though.

I have been hearing that for 40 years. That is the entire point of this thread. Every generation has good and bad music, which is very subjective by the way. I seriously don't think there is any one era where music was better than in other era's. There are high point every once in a while where there is a jump in creativity at certian places. The invention or Rock and Roll. San francisco in the late 60's. The invention of punk rock. etc, etc, etc. Somone else mentioned grunge. You can go back to Charlie Christian and even furthe when we are talking about this subject. Ever hear Django Rienhardt?