"Alabama brings back slavery"

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Originally Posted by guardian

Alabama brings back slavery for Latinos

Here's how: pass a draconian immigration law, lock up 'illegals' in private prisons, then get the new inmates to work in the fields

Several days have now passed since Alabama's anti-immigration law, the harshest and most abusive in the nation, came into full effect. HB 56, a de facto criminalisation of migration, replaces any sensible immigration policy with the favorite solution these days: let's put them behind bars– and we might as well make a profit out of it.

The negative consequences of such shameful legislation have been felt immediately. Within hours, it had claimed its first victims – from the detention of a man who later turned out to be residing legally, to the massive fleeing of migrant workers and school children, to even cutting off water services to families or individuals who can't prove their legal status. It is the most draconian and oppressive set of provisions that this country, which claims to be the bastion of liberties and rights, has seen since the era of segregation.

Because anyone lacking the proper immigration papers is considered to be committing a crime, also entering into a "business transaction" with the individual in question would prompt criminal charges. The pressure to enact and enforce anti-immigration law has left state and local police officers and government agents and officials in a bind. Already struggling to meet demands, with shortened budgets and staff, these agencies must now devise ways to comply with the new set of measures. And at present, these often lead to confusion as to when, how, where and to whom to apply the law.

A consequence of this chaos, though, is that we're seeing absurd and flat out racist applications of the law. A hotline set up by an immigrant protection group has received more than 2,000 phone calls from families in dire need. The pleas range from mothers trying to place their children in safe protection while they look to flee the state, to students being questioned at schools and accounts of abuse and harassment. It is not clear yet how many have been or will be arrested under this provision, but the number will surely make one sector happy: private detention facilities.

Yes, Alabama will have to go that route. In fact, it already has. Not only will this law supply fresh inmates to private detention centers in the state – like the one operated in Decatur by LCS correctional corporation – but it will also feed an already bloated national private prison system controlled by two major corporations, CCA (Corrections Corporation of America) and the GEO group, which have a combined profit of more than $5bn a year. CCA, for example, runs the largest facility in the nation in neighboring Georgia and may potentially take a good portion of the detainees in Alabama. Charging $200 a night, this is an opportunity they'll jump at.

The difference between Alabama and adjoining states is that it is willing to go further down this track. Recently, John McMillan, agriculture commissioner, proposed that the farm work left behind by immigrant workers be supplied with inmate labor. Decatur, a private detention center about 50 miles to the north-west of Alabama, which had been unable to find jobs for inmates, has now witnessed record numbers of requests for labor (for an estimated 150 detainees a day).

So, here is how it goes. First, the state passes a harsh immigration law. Then, it detains large numbers of immigrants. Third, private prisons (LCS, CCA, GEO) receive fresh inmates. And finally, the artificially created labor shortage is supplied by the new inmates. Does this sound like modern-day slavery to anyone?

The rest of the country can only look in shock and dismay, as once again, Alabama, a state renowned for its historical role in racism, segregation and slavery, leads the nation into another round of shame.

Alabama brings back slavery for Latinos | Axel Caballero | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk


Is this true? Or is it being skewed by the media?

It seems like a questionable move at least.

[Old Joe]

Hello Canada!

[Dr. Cheese]

The Alabama law has gotten a lot press for a while. It has survived at least partially intact after some court challenges, and the federal government is asking the courts to stay the law now for some reason that escapes me. I don't see how we can really discuss this because is a current political hot potato.

[P. Aaron]

A British news agency editorializing the USA about it's immigration policy. How's that open immigration policy working out overseas?

Yeah, it's a hot potato but, Alabama has to meet the needs of its taxpaying citizens, legal requirements as prescribed in their state's constitution and keep their costs in line. Who should they listen to, the taxpayers or the non-residents? Who's votes matter?

[MakiSupaStar]

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

Alabama brings back slavery for Latinos | Axel Caballero | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

Is this true? Or is it being skewed by the media?

It seems like a questionable move at least.

There's a lot of slant in this article. I don't know about Alabama, but here in California illegal immigration across our southern border is a serious drain on our state economy. It's a much bigger problem here. Much of it could be solved by going after businesses that hire illegal aliens, since most are immigrating looking for work. Politicians dance around it, but the truth of the matter is that big business wants access to cheap labor with no rights. On the other side of it, we have situations like the 'dream act' in which children of illegals are allowed to go to college at the cost of in state tuition. People are pissed because this gives illegal aliens more access than citizens from out of state. Personally, this doesn't bother me as much if we charge illegals the same rate that nationals from their same country has to pay. My roommate for example is from Japan. She's here on a student visa. Legally. She has to pay 5k a semester for junior college, while her illegal counter part would have to pay around 1200.

[Rocker949]

As much as I disagree with this law, to call this modern-day slavery is ludicrous. The law is idiotic, but this has nothing to do with slavery. I don't know all the details of this, but there does seem to be some exaggeration taking place in the article. It makes it sound like thousands of people are being arrested and thrown in private dungeons. I know for a fact that in the city mentioned (Decatur) four people have been arrested. However, there is really no way to fully discuss this topic and I personally dislike discussing politics even when that is permitted.

4 arrested on new immigration law - Decaturdaily.com

[Rocker949]

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

The Alabama law has gotten a lot press for a while. It has survived at least partially intact after some court challenges, and the federal government is asking the courts to stay the law now for some reason that escapes me. I don't see how we can really discuss this because is a current political hot potato.

+1

[i_got_a_mohawk]

P.Aaron, was asking about the legitamecy of the article, not looking for retort of "yours is worse" style responses, that goes nowhere. Our system isn't perfect, and is likely going to face major reform in the near future. Immigration is a hot potato here too.

Maki, that's kinda f'd that the education system works that way. Who in their right minds thought that was a good idea?

Rocker, I agree that the article is writtein in an inflammatory manner, but just trying to find the reality behind it. It didn't come across as mass arrests, but it did come across as something that will affect a lot of people.

IMO, running prisons for profit is running a fine line, they need to be carefully mediated to avoid any abuse of power for profit!

[Old Joe]

I think this article is more of a "what could happen" situation. Which I see as plausible yet improbable.

[Jim Nazium]

Good lord. This is awful. It is (a) morally disgusting and (b) economically stupid.

IMHO, If we're going to say that these people don't have the right to live in this country, we should deport them. How can we say that we have the right to lock them up? Their only "crime" is working in an otherwise legal occupation at a mutually agreed-upon wage.

Classic macroeconomic theory says that our society is better off with cheap migrant labor than without it. The price of vegetables (or whatever they produce) goes down, I spend less money on vegetables, therefore I can spend more on basses, Fender can hire more employees, etc. Also, these people spend a lot of the money they earn in the communities where they live, thus supporting local businesses. Immigration is a win-win.

[Smokin' Toaster]

Making it an "Alabama vs. Latinos, Hispanics, Mexicans", or any other ethnic group is intellectually dishonest. It's about people who break the law, and put a drain on the economy by receiving benefits to which they are not entitled. I don't care what the person's race, color, creed or national origin, if the break the law or enter the US illegally they must face the consequences. I've traveled abroad, and I've been denied or severely restricted in my ability to work (in Canada). Of course, I entered the country legally. Perhaps if I had entered illegally I wouldn't have had such problems. If you don't think we should enforce immigration laws, what other laws should we ignore? Should we pick and choose which laws are worth observing and which are not?

[Rocker949]

Without getting too political--at least I hope not--the same people responsible for the anti-immigration law have also passed a number of anti-teacher laws which have reduced teachers' pay, benefits, employee rights, and pensions. There is really a lot more to this than meets the eye, and I'm afraid there is really no way to properly discuss this topic here.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

I'd say this is more a question of how you deal with people breaking the law, it is not saying to ignore then, it's questioning the manner in which they are punished.

[JdoubleH]

I may have a gig over in Opelika next month (about 45 min from where I live in Georgia). I wonder if my Yankee driver's license (Oregon) puts me in jeopardy.

Seriously though, I wonder what the ramifications are for musicians. Will we have to verify the status of our fellow musicians or venue owners /agents if we are working in AL? What about buying or selling gear on craigslist?

One thing that is interesting is that some leaders among the conservative religious right wing in Alabama are railing against this as an unconstitutional intrusion on religious freedom, as it criminalizes churches providing food, shelter, transportation or even simply religious services to anyone who its not a legal resident.

[Quickie]

Originally Posted by Rocker949

As much as I disagree with this law,to call this modern-day slavery is ludicrous. The law is idiotic, but this has nothing to do with slavery. I don't know all the details of this, but there does seem to be some exaggeration taking place in the article. It makes it sound like thousands of people are being arrested and thrown in private dungeons. I know for a fact that in the city mentioned (Decatur) four people have been arrested. However, there is really no way to fully discuss this topic and I personally dislike discussing politics even when that is permitted.

4 arrested on new immigration law - Decaturdaily.com

Exactly. Overreaction from those who the law affects. Vehicle swerving, trying to speed away from law enforcement, no state ID's, acting suspiciously by looking into parked cars. Seems to me the law worked perfectly.

[Smokin' Toaster]

Originally Posted by Jim Nazium

Their only "crime" is working in an otherwise legal occupation at a mutually agreed-upon wage.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. They broke the law when they entered this country illegally.

Originally Posted by Jim Nazium

Classic macroeconomic theory says that our society is better off with cheap migrant labor than without it. The price of vegetables (or whatever they produce) goes down, I spend less money on vegetables, therefore I can spend more on basses, Fender can hire more employees, etc. Also, these people spend a lot of the money they earn in the communities where they live, thus supporting local businesses. Immigration is a win-win.

Let’s do a little math:

Let’s assume an ILLEGAL alien works in the US, and spends $10,000 in a year. They pay no income taxes (you have to have a social security number and provide a LEGAL place of residence to do that. Plus, their employer probably pays them in cash to avoid problems he may incur do to employing ILLEGAL aliens.) Lets’s also assume the tax rate is 10%. Therefore, this ILLEGAL alien pays $10,000 x 10%, or $1000 in taxes.

Ok, now let’s assume that this ILLEGAL alien has 2 school age children. And let’s also assume that when this ILLEGAL alien needs healthcare and cannot pay for it, they go to the emergency room where they cannot be turned down.

How far do you think the $1000 in taxes that the ILLEGAL alien paid will go towards the cost of a year’s education for 2 children and several emergency room visits?

Guess who gets to pay for this? You and I. Assuming you pay taxes.

LEGAL immigration may be a win-win. ILLEGAL immigration is a win-lose... and the US Citizen who pays taxes is the loser.

Originally Posted by Rocker949

Without getting too political--at least I hope not--the same people responsible for the anti-immigration law have also passed a number of anti-teacher laws which have reduced teachers' pay, benefits, employee rights, and pensions. There is really a lot more to this than meets the eye, and I'm afraid there is really no way to properly discuss this topic here.

Perhaps if you lived in Alabama and understood the history of the Alabama Education Association (AEA) and their leader and how they have manipulated Alabama politics, made it virtually impossible to remove teachers who are inept and barely literate, and how they have caused many of the schools to sink into or remain substandard rather than police themselves and / or relinquish some of their political power, then you would understand that this not "bad ol politicians hurting the poor, downtrodden teachers." It's about trying to fix things that aren't working.

There are posts here by people who know nothing of Alabama except what they hear on television.

[P. Aaron]

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

P.Aaron, was asking about the legitamecy of the article, not looking for retort of "yours is worse" style responses, that goes nowhere. Our system isn't perfect, and is likely going to face major reform in the near future. Immigration is a hot potato here too.

Yes it is but, the article is an editorial. Opinion based upon that writer's take of how they interpret the news. Britain has their own problems with immigration-assimilation. It is a beef that most Americans have as well. It's not immigration, it's immigrants who fail to assimilate into the American culture.

The Feds write & pass certain laws and the states are supposed to follow. If the Feds don't supply the adequate funding or support for states to abide...especially when it comes to things like immigration, states are many times forced to go it alone getting no support from DC. IT's only when they pass their own rules that it seems that DC & the special interests of 'immigration as it currently stands' fight back...wrong or right.

[Phendyr_Loon]

It sounds like Alabama found a interesting "loop hole" to deal with the on going problem of illegal immigration in the US.

It is true that these immigrants are breaking the law, I don't know that anyone can dispute that. So what happens if I break the law by stealing a car? I run the likelihood of going to prison, and in some states it is common to put inmates on work teams.

So is that slavery, or consequences to breaking the law?

You have to consider a few things. How much money every year does the US spend to deal with illegal immigration? I would guess a lot. Add that to the large sum of money put out every year by the US government to fund the high rate of unemployed citizens LEGALLY living in the US.

Take control of the illegal immigration issue and return the jobs to the deserving legal citizens of the US. Makes sense to me.

Plus, we all remember what happened when US banks decided to be "nice" and allow everybody to mortgage a house? Yeah, that's another example is how the US economy was screwed for fear on stepping on toes.

[Quickie]

Originally Posted by Phendyr_Loon

Take control of the illegal immigration issue and return the jobs to the deserving legal citizens of the US. Makes sense to me.

It really is just that simple. Sympathizers and opponents of common sense will see to it that it does not happen however.

[Jim Nazium]

@ Smokin' Toaster:
I knew someone was going to argue that low-wage immigrants receive more value from government programs than they contribute in taxes. That may be true, but it's also true of most citizens. People with very high incomes pay a lot of taxes, people with low or no incomes (like, you know, musicians) pay very little in taxes, and everyone benefits more or less equally. We don't throw people in jail because their tax bill doesn't cover the cost of educatin their kids in the public schools.

This is starting to turn into a heated political debate, so I'm not going to post further.