Am I going about this all wrong?

[scorpionldr]

Here's a throwback to the kid who asked if College was a necessity.

For the past 6 years I've spent my life with my head between a book, studying to get my degree (a bachelors degree in music, specifically sax), being informed of the "green pastures" that await me. Finally got it back in January of 09.

For the past year, I've been bounced between a variety of jobs (insurance, which had I been able to keep the job and its workload, I would have had a rich life ahead of me, and this last one.) Neither one of these Jobs have surpassed the 6 month length. All the jobs I've been seeing are pretty menial (10 dollar an hour work, 60 hours a week, are you ****ing with me?).

For the past month, I've been unemployed. I worked for a ticketing agency which basically fired me for convenience (BS reasons), and I've been submitting applications. I've been seeing a career counselor to see "what I'm good for". I've been trying to find a band via craigslist out there that is interested in something other than being a Bon Jovi or Springsteen Clown music tribute or cover band or a group interested in solely tuning their guitars to drop F to see how many breakdowns they can fit in a song.

The past year my friends have dwindled down to about the number zero, and I've been realizing just how bad I am at finding new jobs or new people.

...Am I going about this all wrong?

[jmattbassplaya]

Although I have no advice for you, I just want to say how funny schooling (in general) will teach you about quantum mechanics, molecular biology, Kantian ethics, and all this other nonsense and yet they can`t teach someone how to be successful in life and maintain a stable, well paying job.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Well, I don't know about that. Social skills have always been something of going out at meeting people and learning. Most universities will run careers based stuff and whatnot. The difference is you need to go and look for them, you need to do them off your own back.

Also, a stable well paying job isn't something an education guarantee's. I'm working on my education because it is what interests me. I've followed a route that pays me along the way and I know at the end of it, I'm not going to be making huge money. Job stability is an iffy one (in the sciences especially). But, I'll have proved a lot to myself and have the endurance to keep on going for jobs and whatnot. I'm not looking to be stuck behind a desk, just because it would mean I'd make more money.

Heck, if I'd wanted to just make money, I would have gone to medical school or gotten a trade

[scorpionldr]

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

Well, I don't know about that. Social skills have always been something of going out at meeting people and learning. Most universities will run careers based stuff and whatnot. The difference is you need to go and look for them, you need to do them off your own back.

true. Unfortunately my sticky situation is the earlier days have passed, I had issues (learning) that affected my acceptance in high school. I ignored the issue for a while and now I'm trying to "get back" as they say, and its one of these tough issues.

as far as my career......its frustrating, I spent all this time, I actually got pushed out of an educators degree by my Music board head, who basically conspired with the other profs to grade me lower.

So now I'm trying to kick things and I obviously don't want to change from music, so I'm working with a career counselor and we're trying to figure out what's the good change (whether it be promotion or radio or whatever). Its angering tho seeing that employment opportunities are just NOT good! I keep hearing this "oh, you gotta work your way up." Well YEA, its obvious, but when your starting THAT low, you know your in a caste employment system.

[baalroo]

Originally Posted by scorpionldr

Well YEA, its obvious, but when your starting THAT low, you know your in a caste employment system.

Welcome to the reality of the "American Dream." Honestly, the older I get the more I realize that to get anywhere you really have to go out and TAKE IT and forget about excuses for failure. Just in your few posts in this thread I see a lot of things that, although I'm sure you feel strongly about, read to me as excuses. Your professors conspired against you, you were let go from your job for BS reason, etc, etc. Well honestly, boo hoo. I'm not saying that to be mean, but rather as a reality check for you. We all have crap like that happen to us on a regular basis, but the "winners" are the guys who say "f*** 'em" and keep on a choogalin'.

I dropped out of college years ago when I saw all of my older friends falling into the same situation as you are explaining and I realized that since I didn't have any particular goal in mind there really wasn't much point in continuing just for the sake of continuing. I would say since that point, most people would consider me to be a "loser." I, like yourself, have been working mostly menial work (but to be fair, I am a licensed technician in a "trade" that I could use to earn pretty darn good money if I applied myself in the field a bit more... just honestly not very into the profession, rather I just sort of "fell" into it). However, I recently found something I'm fairly passionate about and through some determination I'm now in the process of opening a business of my own, sans degree.

Basically, my point is that a college education is necessary for many professions, and if you're interested in one of those professions then obviously you need to pursue the education you need for it. Also, a degree proves to a possible employer/investor that you have the wherewithal to create and follow through long term goals and plans, handle large workloads, and understand complex ideas. However, you still have to go out there and make something of yourself and not just hope that the slip of paper you got hanging on your wall is going to give you keys to the city. y'know?

[scorpionldr]

Well Baalroo, I can see where it comes off I am simply complaining or hoping for things to come around. I'm not, in fact, sitting idly as you appear to make me to be.

OK, first with the prof BS. One basically "lost" a majority of my paperwork that I turned in without any flaws in it, and caused me to have to retake the same class a second time. A second time I turned in the same exact crap, and I had a C- until I brought it to her attention that I hadn't even changed the work I had done the prior semester. Somehow, my grade MYSTERIOUSLY went up from a C- to an A. Another prof gave me a low grade in a conducting class because somehow I was bad when I was one of the few students flailing like a paraplegic. The stream of crap goes on and on from that school and how they treat their transfers.

As for the job. Their complaint when firing me was that I 1) Misquoted information, and 2) I had been working the same clients too long. OK. So those are their excuses. Considering 1) they'd give me BS if I hadn't looked up information (which in their eyes they're considering "misquoting") and 2) I had been trained on other clients and the management was negligent to ever give me log-on's to work those clients (although I pointed it out to them), and 3) I was given a check that was not processed direct deposit only a week before this, they were looking for their chance to let me go and took it.

I am taking a reality check on things, but at the same time, I can't shake the feeling whatever I try to put together, somehow things just keep exploding in my face.

[mike_v_s]

For most, school doesn't promise a fat paycheck or even a career path that will eventually lead you to one. It promises that a few more doors will be open when you finish. That's all.

I floundered in college because I had too many distractions and "hobbies" and not enough self control. I majored and minored in subjects I found interesting as an attempt to keep me interested and attending. The downside was that I knew I'd be looking long and hard for work after graduation.

I walked out of school and onto a construction site for $11 per hour and picked up a side project on the weekends to get me to 60 hours per week. After I got layed off from there, I took a pay CUT and delivered industrial electrical supplies for a small company. Blah, blah, blah.

You do what you must to get where you want to be. I do OK now, but I'm here (partially) because of the peripheral skills and attributes I picked up slinging bricks in 100 degree heat in Texas with a BS in political science.

Mike

[Jay Ralston]

Find something you think you would love to do as a career and go for it. I have no college degree but I love what I do and make decent money. I work as a corrections officer for the State I live in and am content. I have job security, benefits and retirement. My wife is in the same boat as I am. She only has her high school diploma but last year went to school to become and EMT because that has been her life long dream. She has now been an EMT for almost a year and is doing great. My Dad was a long ditance truck driver until he was diagnosed with M.S. but he loved what he did. I have a nephew that did go to college because his parents urged him to do so but most of his money is from professional photography. He takes professional pictures of either people, nature or whatever and sells them. I am also a pastor and love that too. That job doesn't pay me any money but nevertheless, I enjoy doing it because I get to serve others and minister to them. I may not be the richest guy in the world but I am content and have managed my finances well so I live well. The problem is people get a job that pays 20k a year and they live paycheck to paycheck. Then a few years down the road, they either promote or find something better and now they make 40k a year but still live paycheck to paycheck because they want more stuff. Then maybe they do real well and make 100k a year and it is still the same thing. Then the economy takes a dump and they lose their 100k a year job and have a hard time going back to that 40k a year job yet if from day one they had simply lived like they only made 30k or 40k all along, when they lost that 100k a year job and had to go back to 40k a year or even 80k a year, they would still be in good shape. While money is important, don't just look for something that pays big. There are other jobs I could do that would pay more but I am happy where I am. I get vacation a few times a year, I get a 3 day weekend once a month and I am blessed to not have to worry about losing my job. I don't say that boastfully either because my heart breaks for those who are out of work but I take that as a comfort because I know that my family is being taken care of even in these tough times.
Best of luck to you in your job search!
Jay

[fdeck]

Originally Posted by Jay Ralston

Find something you think you would love to do as a career and go for it. I have no college degree but I love what I do and make decent money. I work as a corrections officer for the State I live in and am content. I have job security, benefits and retirement. My wife is in the same boat as I am. She only has her high school diploma but last year went to school to become and EMT because that has been her life long dream. She has now been an EMT for almost a year and is doing great. My Dad was a long ditance truck driver until he was diagnosed with M.S. but he loved what he did. I have a nephew that did go to college because his parents urged him to do so but most of his money is from professional photography. He takes professional pictures of either people, nature or whatever and sells them. I am also a pastor and love that too. That job doesn't pay me any money but nevertheless, I enjoy doing it because I get to serve others and minister to them. I may not be the richest guy in the world but I am content and have managed my finances well so I live well. The problem is people get a job that pays 20k a year and they live paycheck to paycheck. Then a few years down the road, they either promote or find something better and now they make 40k a year but still live paycheck to paycheck because they want more stuff. Then maybe they do real well and make 100k a year and it is still the same thing. Then the economy takes a dump and they lose their 100k a year job and have a hard time going back to that 40k a year job yet if from day one they had simply lived like they only made 30k or 40k all along, when they lost that 100k a year job and had to go back to 40k a year or even 80k a year, they would still be in good shape. While money is important, don't just look for something that pays big. There are other jobs I could do that would pay more but I am happy where I am. I get vacation a few times a year, I get a 3 day weekend once a month and I am blessed to not have to worry about losing my job. I don't say that boastfully either because my heart breaks for those who are out of work but I take that as a comfort because I know that my family is being taken care of even in these tough times.
Best of luck to you in your job search!
Jay

Ever thought of becoming a philosopher?

[elgecko]

If all there is in your area are Sprinsteen tribute bands, you could A) bone up on your Clarence Clemmons and get playing or B) start your own project. How about a cruise ship gig? You ARE a qualified sax player! Substitute teach while you get a teaching credential? Maybe give private lessons?

[bwv1013]

insert "hang tough because times are tough" pep talk here.

i don't think you're doing anything wrong as much as the wrecked economy is affecting everyone right now. lots of people are fighting for whatever job they can get, so employers have the market. i'm a bit frustrated with my pace of things as well, i just convince myself to play nice everyday and hang in until things get better. i'm not trying to trivialize your efforts to better yourself (keep at it), just offering a little perspective.

[gttim]

1st - You got your degree at the wrong time. This is probably the worst time ever to find a job, much less a career with a new degree. I have friends with kids in your shoes. You just have to keep looking.

2nd - Music is probably not the best degree to get. I was working on a degree in Media Production a lifetime ago, saw people I went to school with working at Turtle Records with their degree, and so I changed to math- much wiser choice. I always recommend people get degrees in demand- nursing, accounting, and job specific stuff. But, you do have a degree, so that looks good.

3rd - Start reading and studying up on what jobs are hiring, and work towards them. Be open to what comes along- I know more people who are in careers they fell into.

4th - Work on interviews. Nail your dress, appearance, how to act, and all that stuff. Plenty of stuff online. Get a blue suit and a good pair of black dress shoes.

5th - A good book to read for all aspects of life is "Conversationally Speaking" by Alan Garner. From job interviews to forging new friendships, to meeting girls. It can't hurt.

[mike_v_s]

I'd like to "+1" a few comments here....

Originally Posted by gttim

3rd - Start reading and studying up on what jobs are hiring, and work towards them. Be open to what comes along- I know more people who are in careers they fell into.

This is VERY true. I didn't fall into my current gig, but I wasn't looking for it, either.

4th - Work on interviews. Nail your dress, appearance, how to act, and all that stuff. Plenty of stuff online. Get a blue suit and a good pair of black dress shoes.

As far as dress, talk to the gentlemen at the haberdashery. A decent "suit guy" won't just throw you in anything, he'll know what to put you in for the job.

Mike

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by scorpionldr

Well Baalroo, I can see where it comes off I am simply complaining or hoping for things to come around. I'm not, in fact, sitting idly as you appear to make me to be.

OK, first with the prof BS. One basically "lost" a majority of my paperwork that I turned in without any flaws in it, and caused me to have to retake the same class a second time. A second time I turned in the same exact crap, and I had a C- until I brought it to her attention that I hadn't even changed the work I had done the prior semester. Somehow, my grade MYSTERIOUSLY went up from a C- to an A. Another prof gave me a low grade in a conducting class because somehow I was bad when I was one of the few students flailing like a paraplegic. The stream of crap goes on and on from that school and how they treat their transfers.

As for the job. Their complaint when firing me was that I 1) Misquoted information, and 2) I had been working the same clients too long. OK. So those are their excuses. Considering 1) they'd give me BS if I hadn't looked up information (which in their eyes they're considering "misquoting") and 2) I had been trained on other clients and the management was negligent to ever give me log-on's to work those clients (although I pointed it out to them), and 3) I was given a check that was not processed direct deposit only a week before this, they were looking for their chance to let me go and took it.

I am taking a reality check on things, but at the same time, I can't shake the feeling whatever I try to put together, somehow things just keep exploding in my face.

Wow! It's almost like everyone you run into is totally screwed up. Glad that doesn't "happen" to me.

[Pilgrim]

I'm tired of the people who talk down the value of education.

School does a lot of things for you. It increases your knowledge base, prepares you to apply that knowledge, and gives you qualifications that help you complete in the job market.

What it does NOT do is teach you how to interview, how to have good work habits, or how to cultivate a personality that encourages people to hire you and enjoy working with you. What it comes down to is that you as a person have to take advantage of the tools you have given yourself. That involves a lot of factors, including the ability to present and sell yourself, to have a positive work ethic and make sure your boss knows it, and generally to be a "winner".

The fact is that NOT everyone you run into is screwed up. NOT every job is bad. NOT every job situation is negative. If you keep encountering these things, then it's due to one of two factors: either you are seeking out bad situations, or 90% likely: YOU are the problem. Your attitude and approach to the job are at least contributing to failure. There are plenty of people out there who carry a negative attitude into every job situation - and you do not want to be one of them. I know it's easy to get down about a job - but all that does is lead to failure.

The problem isn't the rest of the world. What does that leave?

It takes many people years to develop the personal side of the equation and to become positive and find solutions, not problems. This also takes takes ongoing, consistent effort. If you get soured on your job situation, that makes it even harder to land another good job - because a depressed attitude is clearly visible to employers.

All I can say is to do what it takes to get and maintain a positive attitude, sell the hell outta yourself and make a positive impression both before and after you are hired. Look for opportunities, pursue them and be positive.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Originally Posted by Pilgrim

What it does NOT do is teach you how to interview,

While I agree with basically everything else you said, I have to disagree with that part. Each university I have been to has had a careers center. They all run courses and whatnot that help with your interview technique, how to fill out applications and how to approach your CV etc.

Granted, these are generally never compulsory courses, these are things you need to go and look for and do off your own back. (Which is something a lot of people seem to have a problem with, too many people are happy to trundle along doing the bare minimum).

[Pilgrim]

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

While I agree with basically everything else you said, I have to disagree with that part. Each university I have been to has had a careers center. They all run courses and whatnot that help with your interview technique, how to fill out applications and how to approach your CV etc.

Granted, these are generally never compulsory courses, these are things you need to go and look for and do off your own back. (Which is something a lot of people seem to have a problem with, too many people are happy to trundle along doing the bare minimum).

That's well put...although this is not technically part of your education, it's a service provided by most institutions. Many people never make use of the career center or related services - but they definitely should! Training in interviewing and job-seeking is a real asset, and job listings that come in through the institution are worth pursuing.

Also - many institutions have extensive online career services available to students and alumni. You should definitely explore all those services to see what's out there. Again, many people completely overlook this.

[Febs]

Originally Posted by scorpionldr

Another prof gave me a low grade in a conducting class because somehow I was bad when I was one of the few students flailing like a paraplegic.

Huh? Did you mean to write that you were "not one of the few students flailing like a paraplegic"? Or do you think that "flailing around like a paraplegic" is a trait that makes for a good conductor?

[Calebmundy]

Yeah it sucks major *********************** dude. I might suggest you look into theater and cruise ship work if you can. It's work for someone who can read, and it's one of the most likely places for horn players to find work. There is actually a lot out there.

[MakiSupaStar]

Here's a piece of advice. Go into your career counselor at school. Ask them where they're seeing the majority of jobs coming from. Whose hiring? What industry is flourishing right now? Etc. That will provide you with your choices. These choices might not align with your major, but it's what you have to do to make money. Life is about compromises. Nobody cares if you're making a stand against compromising, because they're too busy dealing with their own compromises.