Am I racist?

[MakiSupaStar]

Alright my fellow racial arguers, I have one for you. I get called a racist a few times a year from folks I work with. Sometimes it's my students. Sometimes it's their parents. Last week I verbally reminded a student who was wasting time, to get back to work. She then said 'Can I 'ax' you a question about the assignment?' I said, "I certainly hope not, but you're welcome to 'ask' me a question." She stopped in her tracks and loudly called me a racist. At that point, I informed her that I'm removing her from my class, but I asked her why she called me that. Her response was because I corrected the way she speaks. For reference, this is a 13 year old black girl.

Now, we are all aware of the vernacular and linguistic differences between geographic regions, and even between different cultures, but I was just thinking about this while I was reading Iota's 'racist' thread, and I couldn't help but wonder what you guys think. I'm pretty thick skinned, so trust me, I'm not all that concerned when a kid/parent calls me a racist, but I figured that I'd throw this one up for all the dudes that like to argue about these things. Also, does anyone know where this mispronunciation comes from? It's not the first, nor do I believe the last time, I've heard students using 'ax' instead of 'ask'.

[carlos840]

You can be whatever color on earth, doesnt mean you should speak like an uneducated fool!
I think you where right to correct her and that she is just to young to appreciate what your trying to do!
Nothing racist about it IMO!!!

This "ax" thing might sound "cool" and be the norm where she lives but put her with people with good language skills and education and she will look pretty bad in only a word!

[Eric Perry]

Was it insensitive? Maybe a little. Probably could have worded it a little better. I would not say racist, however. Not at all. Dude, you're a *teacher* and the kid is speaking like uneducated trailer trash. Isn't it your JOB to correct such things?

When my clients come to me and speak in their ridiculous and improper slang, I call them out on it virtually every time.

[Pollinator95]

Definetly not racism, unless you didn´t correct white students who mispronounced "ask". And it still wouldn´t be, probably.
I was once sitting on a bus next to a Black guy. A row of seats close by became totally empty, so I shifted there for everyone´s comodity. I was subsequently treated to a chain of insults suggesting I was racist. Thankfully, the rest of the bus was sniggering and said Black person was too angry to argue. I guess some people are too sensitive.
As for "ax", Spanish people pronounce it like that sometimes. Weird.

[baba]

You are there to teach, among other things, English. You were correct, and an accusation of racism is just ridiculous.

[electracoyote]

The word "racism," and all permutations thereof, has been abused and misused to the point of having little meaning, unfortunately.

And especially with young people, who probably got this from adults.

Just like the words "dude," "gay," "awesome," etc. Society uses a word the wrong way for too long, it suddenly loses meaning.

Which is why young people sound so stupid when they use it incorrectly. And why TB race threads go south 100% of the time.

[VincentSalizeri]

I'm sorry to tell you this, but diagnosis: RACIST





No, not really. In a school setting, proper enunciation and pronunciation should be expected. Also, dialect is not mutually inclusive with race/ethnicity.

[Kwesi]

Originally Posted by Eric Perry

Was it insensitive? Maybe a little. Probably could have worded it a little better. I would not say racist, however. Not at all. Dude, you're a *teacher* and the kid is speaking like uneducated trailer trash. Isn't it your JOB to correct such things?

I can't possibly see how what he said was insensitive, honestly. You can correct someones grammar all you want but it won't stick until there's a little something there to help remind them of the proper way to do things. The bit of snark on Maki's comment was perfect. This may sound a bit wrong but trust me, sitting a kid down and properly explaining the finer points and benefits of proper spelling, grammar and pronunciation just doesn't work if it isn't something they're already used to. I've tried. You need something to drive it home and sometimes a little embarrassment can do that. If you get called out on something you're more likely to remember what you did wrong in that situation, am I right? Something tells me she'll use 'ax' at least a bit less frequently now.

On a somewhat unrelated note I remember in second grade I said to another kids "Do you know where the teacher is? I need to ask her a question." Now, I remember saying 'ask' but I also remember having issues with pronouncing the word. The kid did this massive gasp and ran to the teacher saying that I had said 'ass.' I don't know how it went so far but I eventually ended up in the Principal's office and when I told him the story, on the verge of tears at the thought of my parents being called for me cursing, he burst into laughter and just sent me back to class .

[Dr_Funkdamental]

Nope. I catch flack for it all the time. I still say it jacked up LOL.

[Relic]

How is it even remotely "racist" by definition?
The debate might be "was it racially insensitive or not"?
IMO, good grammar counts for a lot in school, college and most importantly - the real world when you're out there looking for a decent job.
No, there's nothing racist about actually caring for your student's futures!

[i_got_a_mohawk]

You express horrible "positive racism" towards Asians. And horrible "positive sexism" towards chicks.

Particularly Asian Chicks.

You sir, are out of control!

[dblthumbballad]

I hope you also explained that the proper use of "ax" is used for referencing a guitar or bass...

[teleharmonium]

Originally Posted by MakiSupaStar

Now, we are all aware of the vernacular and linguistic differences between geographic regions, and even between different cultures, but I was just thinking about this while I was reading Iota's 'racist' thread, and I couldn't help but wonder what you guys think.

In this example, this is the key point... the "axe" pronunciation is not a regional difference, nor a "mistake"; it has become a cultural difference, but it goes back a long way, to Old English. Chaucer used it, with the spelling axe. It's probably stayed in that earlier form in the African American vernacular since the 1600s when it died out in mainstream English.

I suppose there are multiple points of view on this, but since you asked, mine is that as a teacher of diverse students, you have a responsibility to be aware of what is and is not a legitimate cultural or dialect difference, and have sensitivity to this. At the least, you could have framed your response more along the lines of explaining what was appropriate for the context rather than presuming to have the objective truth, which in this particular case, you don't.

I'm sure you're aware that usage determines grammar, not the other way around, and it is not debatable that "axe" has wide usage as it has continuously for hundreds of years... I'm not saying you're racist, but I am saying she was not objectively wrong for using that form of the word.

The underlying questions are, what is the purpose of education when it comes to a living language ? Is it to make everyone the same ? Or is it enough to be aware of the mainstream grammar without necessarily being obliged to use it ? Who gets to say what is correct, and why them ? Does it depend on where you are ?

[Relic]

Originally Posted by teleharmonium

In this example, this is the key point... the "axe" pronunciation is not a regional difference, nor a "mistake"; it has become a cultural difference, but it goes back a long way, to Old English. Chaucer used it, with the spelling axe. It's probably stayed in that earlier form in the African American vernacular since the 1600s when it died out in mainstream English.

I suppose there are multiple points of view on this, but since you asked, mine is that as a teacher of diverse students, you have a responsibility to be aware of what is and is not a legitimate cultural or dialect difference, and have sensitivity to this. At the least, you could have framed your response more along the lines of explaining what was appropriate for the context rather than presuming to have the objective truth, which in this particular case, you don't.

I'm sure you're aware that usage determines grammar, not the other way around, and it is not debatable that "axe" has wide usage as it has continuously for hundreds of years... I'm not saying you're racist, but I am saying she was not objectively wrong for using that form of the word.

The underlying questions are, what is the purpose of education when it comes to a living language ? Is it to make everyone the same ? Or is it enough to be aware of the mainstream grammar without necessarily being obliged to use it ? Who gets to say what is correct, and why them ? Does it depend on where you are ?

Yes, but which pronunciation is more likely to sound better, right or wrong, all historical usage aside, in a job interview?

[pie_man_25]

Originally Posted by dblthumbballad

I hope you also explained that the proper use of "ax" is used for referencing a guitar or bass...

I'd like to ax you something, what's the best bass for metal?

[fenderhutz]

See I am amazed she jumped right to the racist card instead of just calling you an @$$. Even if it is "correct" this is one of those things you talk to her after class about instead of calling her out and embarrassing her in front of her friends. That is all I see you guilty of, poor judgement.

[warwick.hoy]

You married a Sexy Asian Chick,....not racist.

[MakiSupaStar]

Originally Posted by teleharmonium

In this example, this is the key point... the "axe" pronunciation is not a regional difference, nor a "mistake"; it has become a cultural difference, but it goes back a long way, to Old English. Chaucer used it, with the spelling axe. It's probably stayed in that earlier form in the African American vernacular since the 1600s when it died out in mainstream English.

I suppose there are multiple points of view on this, but since you asked, mine is that as a teacher of diverse students, you have a responsibility to be aware of what is and is not a legitimate cultural or dialect difference, and have sensitivity to this. At the least, you could have framed your response more along the lines of explaining what was appropriate for the context rather than presuming to have the objective truth, which in this particular case, you don't.

I'm sure you're aware that usage determines grammar, not the other way around, and it is not debatable that "axe" has wide usage as it has continuously for hundreds of years... I'm not saying you're racist, but I am saying she was not objectively wrong for using that form of the word.

The underlying questions are, what is the purpose of education when it comes to a living language ? Is it to make everyone the same ? Or is it enough to be aware of the mainstream grammar without necessarily being obliged to use it ? Who gets to say what is correct, and why them ? Does it depend on where you are ?

You know it's funny, I'm aware of what you're talking about, and if the student uses it in the right context, and isn't causing a disruption, I really don't care. In fact, I think I've corrected students on this particular pronunciation (not just black student's either) easily less than 10 times in my 9 years at this school. But this is the first time that I was called a 'racist' for it. Trust me, I generally brush off the outbursts of an angry child, but this made me pause. I had to ask myself if I was being insensitive, other than my usual sarcasm. Still, I appreciate everyone's input, and I have genuinely been interested in where this pronunciation of the word comes.

[teleharmonium]

Originally Posted by Relic

Yes, but which pronunciation is more likely to sound better, right or wrong, all historical usage aside, in a job interview?

She wasn't in a job interview. She's in school. Which she is required to attend.

If the question is what is appropriate for the context, there is no point in a hypothetical about a different context, since the answer depends solely on that.

It also might depend on the job interview. If she's interviewing for a job in her neighborhood with people that she knows personally, which is not an unreasonable assumption, it may be that "axe" is correct in that situation. Part of the goal of an interview is to establish that the interviewer and applicant can relate to each other.

[Relic]

Originally Posted by teleharmonium

She wasn't in a job interview. She's in school. Which she is required to attend.

If the question is what is appropriate for the context, there is no point in a hypothetical about a different context, since the answer depends solely on that.

It also might depend on the job interview. If she's interviewing for a job in her neighborhood with people that she knows personally, which is not an unreasonable assumption, it may be that "axe" is correct in that situation. Part of the goal of an interview is to establish that the interviewer and applicant can relate to each other.

I hear you. I just disagree is all