Amazing. Subs collide underwater

[syciprider]

Odds are incredible but they are still odds. Good to see no one was hurt.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090216/..._sub_collision

LONDON – Nuclear-armed submarines from Britain and France collided in the Atlantic Ocean earlier this month, authorities acknowledged Monday — touching off new concerns about the safety of the world's deep sea missile fleets.

The HMS Vanguard, the oldest vessel in Britain's nuclear-armed submarine fleet, and the French Le Triomphant submarine, which was also carrying nuclear missiles, both suffered minor damage in the collision. No crew members were reported injured.

Britain's most senior sailor, First Sea Lord, Adm. Jonathon Band, said the underwater crash posed no risk to the safety of the submarines' nuclear reactors and nuclear missiles. But he offered no explanation of how the rare incident might have occurred.

"The two submarines came into contact at very low speed," Band said in a statement. "Both submarines remained safe."

France's defense ministry said the ballistic missile submarines had been carrying out routine patrols when they collided.

"They briefly came into contact at a very low speed while submerged. There were no injuries. Neither their nuclear deterrence missions nor their safety were affected," France's defense ministry said Monday in a statement.

Still, the HMS Vanguard was towed back to a submarine base in Scotland with visible dents and scrapes, the BBC reported.

Le Triomphant suffered damaged to a sonar dome but returned under its own power to its base on L'Ile Longue on France's western tip, France said.

Neither France or Britain would confirm the exact date of the collision, but said it took place earlier this month.

The French military had issued a statement Feb 6. saying that one of its submarines had struck a submerged object — "probably a container" — but did not say the Le Triomphant had collided with another vessel.

Britain did not comment on the incident until Monday, after some details were reported by the British media. The defense ministry said the government's usual policy is not to comment on submarine deployments.

Naval experts said they were amazed by the collision.

"This really shouldn't have happened at all," said Stephen Saunders, a retired British Royal Navy commodore and the editor of Jane's Fighting Ships. "It's a very serious incident, and I find it quite extraordinary."

He said while NATO countries let each other know what general area of the Atlantic they are operating in, neither submarine would have had a precise position for the other.

Saunders said submarines don't always turn on their radar systems, or make their presence obvious to other shipping.

"The whole point is to go and hide in a big chunk of ocean and not be found. They tend to go around very slowly and not make much noise," he said.

Some British lawmakers demanded an explanation from Prime Minister Gordon Brown's government.

"(The government) needs to explain how it is possible for a submarine carrying weapons of mass destruction to collide with another submarine carrying weapons of mass destruction in the middle of the world's second-largest ocean," lawmaker Angus Robertson of the opposition Scottish National Party said.

HMS Vanguard came into service in 1993, has a crew of around 140 and typically carries 16 Lockheed Trident D5 missiles. Under government policy, British nuclear submarines carry a maximum of 48 warheads. At least one of Britain's four submarines is on patrol and ready to fire at any given time.

British lawmakers in 2007 approved a 20 billion-pound ($30 billion) program to replace the fleet with new nuclear-armed submarines.

France's Le Triomphant carries 111 crew and 15 nuclear missiles, according to defense analysis group Jane's.

Anti-nuclear groups said the crash should remind the world just how dangerous nuclear submarines really are.

"This reminds us that we could have a new catastrophe with a nuclear submarine at any moment. It is a risk that exists during missions but also in port," said Stephane Lhomme, a spokesman for the French anti-nuclear group Sortir du Nucleaire, "These are mobile nuclear reactors."

Britain's Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament called on Brown to end his country's nuclear submarine patrols of the Atlantic.

"The collision of two submarines, both with nuclear reactors and nuclear weapons onboard, could have released vast amounts of radiation and scattered scores of nuclear warheads across the seabed," the group said.

___

Associated Press Writers Jennifer Quinn in London and Jamey Keaten and Angela Charlton in Paris contributed to this story.

[T-Bird]

Hi.

Just great. And that's the story that leaked. How many other similar ones have been swept under the rug? IN THE WEST...

Regards
Sam

[PSPookie]

So, do you think a chick was driving

[syciprider]

Just great. And that's the story that leaked. How many other similar ones have been swept under the rug? IN THE WEST...

TFH

Contrary to popular belief, sailors too are ordinary human beings given to discussing stuff with their families and friends. If a government tries to cover up an incident that several hundred ppl are privvy to, chances are, it will not stay covered up very long. Especially if the knowing parties lives were placed in danger. They will want someone to hear their story.

[RED5]

Originally Posted by syciprider

TFH

Contrary to popular belief, sailors too are ordinary human beings given to discussing stuff with their families and friends. If a government tries to cover up an incident that several hundred ppl are privvy to, chances are, it will not stay covered up very long. Especially if the knowing parties lives were placed in danger. They will want someone to hear their story.

This is true. It's been said in my presence that these occurences are fairly common, and who comes back to port is telling the truth.

[Relic]

Do like the Russians - cover it up, threaten, intimidate and when all hope of secrecy is lost, blame it all on the USA FTW.

Thank god no one was injured in this one though, it could have been far worse.

[nortonrider]

Originally Posted by PSPookie

So, do you think a chick was driving

...Talking on a cell phone

[dave64o]

... while putting on makeup in the rear view mirror

[lopxtc]

It is actually fairly common ... do some research and you can find books written on the subject during cold war times.

If anything it goes to show you just how good these subs are at staying quiet. Most likely operating on passive sonar, so they are just listening versus actively pinging and trying to find something. So both subs were quiet enough to not realize the other was there until to late.

Aaron

[machine gewehr]

I never understood planes crashing in the air.Its the SPACE dammit how can't you avaiod something like that?
(I know I know navigation faults etc. but stil..)

And subs crashing?Thats new to me and almost as amazing as planes.

[Dr Stankface]

Originally Posted by nortonrider

...Talking on a cell phone

Nope. Texting.

[Lucky Strike]

This reminds me of the movie 'Down Periscope', I wonder if they thought it was just a large whale...

[Joe Gress]

So if a French sub and a British sub collide into each other, what nationality is the baby?

[bassrique]

Originally Posted by AP via Yahoo

Saunders said submarines don't always turn on their radar systems, or make their presence obvious to other shipping.

[peabody]

I just bought a new car with Blind Spot Monitoring. It lets me know when I have a car in my blind spot and beeps if I happen to activate my turn signal. I wonder if they decided to skip that option when they bought the subs and go with the Bose stereo instead....or the extra cup holders.

[MatticusMania]

Originally Posted by peabody

I just bought a new car with Blind Spot Monitoring. It lets me know when I have a car in my blind spot and beeps if I happen to activate my turn signal. I wonder if they decided to skip that option when they bought the subs and go with the Bose stereo instead....or the extra cup holders.

Nope.





(it was the flip down DVD player)

[burk48237]

The amazing thing is France and England each have 4 Nuclear Subs with Missiles in their fleets. That means that two of their total eight subs managed to collide in what like eight gazillion squire miles of ocean. I'm sure it was make up and cellphone.

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

This is what happens when you mix right-drive and left-drive.

[jonathan_matos5]

but who's fault is it for insurance purposes? are they gonna need a rental while their main sub is in the shop? what about medical bills?

[bobba66]

Not the first time. During the cold war there were a few incidents between subs.