Americans held hostage by pirates are dead

[Bassman316]

So the news is breaking on the internet that the four American citizens that were captured by Somali pirates last week are dead.... a tragedy for sure and my thoughts and prayers go out to the families and friends of the deceased.

But one thing I can't understand is this- these pirates have overtaken large ships before, like container ships many, many times the size of the vessel they're on. How does a boat with a handful of pirates on it overtake a container ship 15 times its size?!

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Originally Posted by Bassman316

So the news is breaking on the internet that the four American citizens that were captured by Somali pirates last week are dead.... a tragedy for sure and my thoughts and prayers go out to the families and friends of the deceased.

But one thing I can't understand is this- these pirates have overtaken large ships before, like container ships many, many times the size of the vessel they're on. How does a boat with a handful of pirates on it overtake a container ship 15 times its size?!

Just because a ship is large, doesn't mean there'll be a large crew. They could be better armed, they could be sneaking on and taking hostages and using them as leverage over remaining crew etc.

Grim news about the American hostages who have lost their lives

[T-Bird]

Hi.

Fatbeard (SP) anyone?

Tragedy, yes.
Avoidable, no.

Originally Posted by Bassman316

But one thing I can't understand is this- these pirates have overtaken large ships before, like container ships many, many times the size of the vessel they're on. How does a boat with a handful of pirates on it overtake a container ship 15 times its size?!

Some people abide laws, some won't.

Up until all the freight forwarders and/or the shipping companies hire professionals (=mercenaries) to deal with the security, these things will continue. It's not like every Jack, Jill & Joe are able to shoot to kill.

The joint campaigns like the one that one of our light mine-layers participate in can only help up to a point, and they are bound by the international laws and restrictions.
That means that killing the pirates at the first sight is not an option.

The pirates don't have the same kind of problems.

Regards
Sam

[Sandvich Hero]

For those who wonder, I think this explains well how the usual hijack works out, as well as the reaction of the forces involved (Pirates, ship crew, ship owners, security agency "negociators") :

http://www.wired.com/politics/securi...somali_pirates

[DreadRaver]

This is sad news.
Last night I found their website and spent some time looking at their pictures and reading stories of their adventures.
They seemed like really nice people.

Here is the website of their travels:

http://www.svquest.com/

[Relic]

Horrible.

From another perspective - this was an incredibly stupid move from the pirates. If pirating were a lucrative business for them as it seems it was, it's now gotten much more expensive to run in several different ways.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Originally Posted by T-Bird

Tragedy, yes.
Avoidable, no.

Of course it was avoidable. Don't go sailing in that region!

Seems they were killed during negotiations or a rescue attempt (going by the news sources).

[Bassman316]

Originally Posted by Sandvich Hero

For those who wonder, I think this explains well how the usual hijack works out, as well as the reaction of the forces involved (Pirates, ship crew, ship owners, security agency "negociators") :

http://www.wired.com/politics/securi...somali_pirates

Interesting information there. I was shocked to see how many attacks have happened over the past several years when I saw that map. I can see from a geographic standpoint why those waters are so dangerous- Somalia lies along the route ships take to pass through the Suez canal. The alternate is rounding the southern tip of Africa, which means a lot of additional cost.

It really is a sad story. Innocent people in a boat minding their own business, and this happens.... I can't imagine the hurt their families are going through knowing they died on the other side of the world at the hands of these vicious people.

[Sandvich Hero]

Originally Posted by Relic

Horrible.

From another perspective - this was an incredibly stupid move from the pirates. If pirating were a lucrative business for them as it seems it was, it's now gotten much more expensive to run in several different ways.

I'm completely with you on this one. If the information from the Wired article I posted is any accurate, I can't understand for the life of me the motivation behind this hijack (and even more, the killings) when they usually make hundreds of thousands, if not millions, with each successful commercial hijack (maybe 1 in 30 attempts at the worst, from what I read), where there is now a complete business process to support it (even if this is, in itself, quite messed up).

[electracoyote]

Didn't the US Navy get involved with Somali pirates last year in a rescue, our snipers picked off a couple of kidnappers?

[Relic]

Originally Posted by electracoyote

Didn't the US Navy get involved with Somali pirates last year in a rescue, our snipers picked off a couple of kidnappers?

Yes.

I suspect that this method may now become SOP whenever and wherever possible. One can at least hope..

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Originally Posted by electracoyote

Didn't the US Navy get involved with Somali pirates last year in a rescue, our snipers picked off a couple of kidnappers?

They apparently got involved this time too, wonder if the pirates got spooked and offed the hostages?

[Relic]

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

They apparently got involved this time too, wonder if the pirates got spooked and offed the hostages?

Possibly, but if that was the case, that was a really really bad move. I can't think of why they would negate the only real bargaining chip that they held??

[jaywa]

We need to get medieval on these bastards.

Summary executions for all who are captured.

If they want to roll 18th century, then let the punishments be likewise.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Originally Posted by Relic

Possibly, but if that was the case, that was a really really bad move. I can't think of why they would negate the only real bargaining chip that they held??

It's the thing I don't understand either. Surely taking out the hostages is as good as getting yourself dead!

[Jools4001]

Originally Posted by Bassman316

Interesting information there. I was shocked to see how many attacks have happened over the past several years when I saw that map. I can see from a geographic standpoint why those waters are so dangerous- Somalia lies along the route ships take to pass through the Suez canal. The alternate is rounding the southern tip of Africa, which means a lot of additional cost.

It would be nice if it were that simple. The pirates have moved on from just taking ships plying the shipping channels to and from Suez. They have now captured enough large ships that they can use some of them as Motherships (complete with hostages). This means they can operate almost anywhere within the Indian Ocean, and in any kind of weather (rough seas used to put the dampers on, but no longer). It's no wonder that they are prepared to go to these lengths when the prizes are so huge - they recently captured a tanker with 1/5 of the USA's daily oil import on board, worth some $200Million - quite a ransom for that

I don't know what the answer is but a multi-faceted approach might be a place to start, maybe with an international approach to the political situation in Somalia (a completely dysfunctional state), coupled with some forensic accountancy following the money (somebody has got to be bankrolling these attacks and laundering the profits) - and I bet that the 'Mr Big' wouldn't have much to do with Somalia

I also agree that these ships should have small but highly trained armed groups on board with specialist armaments (even laser guided missiles if necessary). The rules could be re-written such that any small fast boat on an intercept path of a large ship would simply be blown out of the water after a couple of fair warnings - if genuine owners of small fast boats were aware of that they would have nothing to do but stay away. You wouldn't need a response unit on every ship, just enough so that the pirates were playing russian roulette

[CapnSev]

Originally Posted by jaywa

We need to get medieval on these bastards.

Summary executions for all who are captured.

If they want to roll 18th century, then let the punishments be likewise.

Make 'em walk the plank!

Arrggg!

[chi-town_mike]

Yeah the pirates are killed or arrested.

The problem is many of the pirates are now in their teens. So this way of life is just going to spread and continue.

[Bassman316]

Originally Posted by Jools4001

they recently captured a tanker with 1/5 of the USA's daily oil import on board, worth some $200Million - quite a ransom for that

[MakiSupaStar]

Yeah I just bumped the thread I started on this awhile ago.

African Pirates -- Anyone Following This?