Anyone have a diesel car?

[Jim Nazium]

Yesterday while my car was being serviced, I got a diesel version of the same model (Audi A3) as a loaner. I liked it; it felt like it had a lot more low-RPM torque than mine, which is good for city driving.

For those of you that own or have owned a diesel, how was your experience? Were the overall fuel costs lower, higher, about the same? What about maintenance costs? Any other issues?

Thanks,
JN

[nutdog]

My first car was a 1981 Isuzu Imark diesel. My parents had just bought a Volkswagen Rabbit diesel. It took a long time for the glow plugs to warm up. The Imark had a new feature that had a 3.5 second max warm up.

I drove that car everywhere for 7 years. Always got 40mpg, city or highway. The only thing I did was change the oil and eventually put glow plugs in it. It was running fine when I sold it. I did have to replace the transmission after 110K.

It had low power, which probably kept me alive as a teenager. It helped to turn the AC off when you needed to pass. It wasn't exactly a chick magnet.

My parents ran a small airport. The jet fuel farm had a hand pump for sampling the fuel for water. I used it to run my car. It ran better than car diesel fuel, especially in the winter.

A friend of mine runs a restaurant and converted his older Mercedes diesel to run on the waste grease.

[Mark Latimour]

Half of Europe drives diesel cars. Per unit the fuel costs more, but the millage is far better. Modern deisels are pretty powerful by comparison to older cars. They also don't smell as much as they used to, but are still generally noisier, smellier and have less power than an equivalent petrol engine. Of course, they have more torque so often feel faster off a standing start.

[bmc]

I just picked up a new X-Trail last Friday. It has a 2.0L 150hp diesel engine.

I do quite a bit of highway each week. So far, I am averaging 34 mpg and expect it to improve as the car breaks in. That's better than my last car. It was a 2007 Mercedes A-Class 1.5L with 95hp gas engine. I was averaging 30 mpg with a smaller engine.

The price of diesel is more than petrol in Switzerland. But, we have a farm in France, where diesel is cheaper than petrol.

Needed a bigger vehicle. Wanted 4x4 for the farm and winter in the hills. Came out ahead.

[hartke20g]

diesels have more low-end torque, but they can only rev so high (with few exceptions). if you like going fast and passing people, you'll hate diesel. if you like getting 40mpg and the feeling of having gobs of torque, you'll love diesel.
god help you if you ever have injector problems, though. they're usually expensive to have fixed, unless you're comfortable with doing your own repairs.
if you do like doing your own work, keep in mind the newer diesels are very sophisticated (in order to get that high mpg) so what may have been a simple repair on an old VW diesel may turn out to be very complicated (what with the amount of computing cars do nowadays).

that said, i'd love to have a small diesel Golf, or even something like a 2.5L diesel in my Jeep.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Diesel is slightly more expensive that petrol here, and diesel cars tend to be more expensive than their petrol equivilants. But the mileage, as has been said, tends to be much better.

You'll generally get better acceleration with a petrol engine, at least from 0-60.

My folks just sold a petrol car and moved to a smaller diesel, they admit it misses the acceleration, but the running costs are much lower (it's one of these "eco" models where you can cut the engine at lights etc and instantly start up again). They certainly prefer it over the petrol one they had before.

[DRafalske]

I drive a 2001 Dodge 2500 (I know, not a car). It has the Cummins 24 valve diesel, 245hp, 505lbft. It's also a 6 speed manual and 4x4. Longest wheelbase you could get that year.

Empty mileage is about 21mpg highway. Loaded (pulling a 10K#+ camper) I get about 11.
My last truck was gasoline powered and averaged about 12mpg empty. Half that while loaded.

Diesel fuel tends to be about the same price as premium gas.

Diesels have longer oil change intervals, but usually take more oil so that's a wash.

Fuel filter changes are a MUST! And you never want to run one out of fuel!

From a maintenance standpoint, they're not much different and not much more expensive than gassers. Some newer ones use a Urea injection to help with emissions. The "diesel exhaust fluid", as they call it, can be bought for about $5/gal. A gallon lasts about a thousand miles.

It's an expensive option on a new car ($7000+ in the truck world), but diesels are generally more robust in their construction and tend to last much, much longer than gasoline engines. For instance, Cummins specifies a 350k mile overhaul interval on the 24v. Many are running much longer and I've personally seen a couple with well over a million and running fine. Mine has 145k on the clock and runs better, pulls harder, and gets better mileage than it did when it was new. It's completely stock and always has been.

They also command a higher resale value.

Repairs can get pricey if you actually have to pay for them (most have great warranties). A couple years ago I had to replace the injection pump on my truck. $1000 for a rebuilt one. I installed it myself, so that price is just for the part. Ouch.

D

[TheSuzie]

I owned one of the older, lower powered diesel cars with a standard transmission. It was a love-hate thing for me. I liked the car a lot but found I had to plan moves like passes and high speed merges much further in advance.

It, like many other diesel cars, had a throttle that was intentionally non-linear so it felt great around town in traffic. The standard transmission helped too. The downside was that the further reaches of the throttle action did nothing and it took a little while to adjust to that fact.

Long steep hills at highway speeds could be a struggle especially with the A/C on and/or with passengers. I would have to shut the A/C in such situations. Without big hills I could just lock it in at 75 and go all day on the highway.

S

[Rusty Chainsaw]

When I was living back in the UK I had several diesel cars - two Citroens and a VW Golf. They all got ~50mpg, had plenty of grunt, and very little of that stereotypical noise or smoke. I never had any trouble overtaking either, even doing 80 on the motorway. Modern diesel engines are great - very refined, quiet, stupidly economical and surprisingly clean - and I wish they were more popular in the US. Yet I think diesel still has a stigma in the US as being dirty, noisy, unrefined and agricultural, which is no longer true. Their CO2 emissions are generally slightly higher than an equivalent petrol engine, but NOx emissions are much lower and particulate emissions have been practically eliminated.

Pretty much all car manufacturers (including American-based manufacturers such as Ford, GM and Chrysler) sell all their major models with diesel engines in Europe - in most of Europe, they actually sell a lot better than the petrol versions thanks to the far better MPG. Yet only VW and Mercedes currently sell 50-state-legal diesels in the US. I think BMW are joining the party soon, but the American and Japanese/Korean manufacturers don't seem interested.

[TheSuzie]

Originally Posted by Rusty Chainsaw

Modern diesel engines are great - very refined, quiet, stupidly economical and surprisingly clean - and I wish they were more popular in the US. Yet I think diesel still has a stigma in the US as being dirty, noisy, unrefined and agricultural, which is no longer true.

From my point of view (very chemically reactive person) while they have improved, diesels still stink. Exposure to raw diesel fuel makes me more ill than exposure to gasoline. Also the residue from diesel seems to be more persistent and harder to remove than that from gasoline.

These may not be problems for other folks but are deal killers for me.

S

[Rusty Chainsaw]

Originally Posted by TheSuzie

From my point of view (very chemically reactive person) while they have improved, diesels still stink. Exposure to raw diesel fuel makes me more ill than exposure to gasoline. Also the residue from diesel seems to be more persistent and harder to remove than that from gasoline.

These may not be problems for other folks but are deal killers for me.

S

You said in your previous post that your experience with a diesel car was with an older model. Things have changed, and I guess this is what most of the US car-buying public don't realise.

Firstly, the US finally transitioned to low-sulphur diesel a couple of years back, which immediatly cuts down on the stink factor. However, diesel is still a form of heavy oil, there's no getting away from that, but that shouldn't make much of a difference if you're not getting it all over your hands.

Secondly, diesel engines have come on in leaps and bounds in the past few years. Go and try out a VW Golf TDI - other than a different engine note, you'll be hard-pressed to tell the difference from a petrol-powered Golf in terms of refinement and emissions. You'll just gain a lot more torque and much better MPG.

[bmc]

Originally Posted by Rusty Chainsaw

Secondly, diesel engines have come on in leaps and bounds in the past few years. Go and try out a VW Golf TDI - other than a different engine note, you'll be hard-pressed to tell the difference from a petrol-powered Golf in terms of refinement and emissions. You'll just gain a lot more torque and much better MPG.

Diesels of today are much quicker. Much much quicker.

[RBetoGT]

I have driven from audi's a4 to s4, and the BMW 1 series, 3 series and 5 (GT )

and let me tell you that diesel is so nice, and the same power than petrol, less emmisions and high amounts of flat torque

IMHO, you should ask for a test drive, you would be amazed at how well the car drives itself

[The Mouse]

I've gone from a twin turbo petrol Subaru Legacy to a diesel VW Caddy tdi... Couldn't be more different in every way.. I have tripled my mpg tho'..

[TheSuzie]

Originally Posted by Rusty Chainsaw

You said in your previous post that your experience with a diesel car was with an older model. Things have changed, and I guess this is what most of the US car-buying public don't realise.

......

you'll be hard-pressed to tell the difference from a petrol-powered Golf in terms of refinement and emissions. You'll just gain a lot more torque and much better MPG.

Yes, I have not owned a diesel since around 1980, before my illness.

Some people I know have diesels built in the last couple of years. They are much better in general but not for me. My illness is extreme and to be around the exhaust of any vehicle I need to wear a respirator.

While many people may be hard pressed to tell the difference, that is not the case for me. It is also not the case for a lot of other chemically reactive folks from what those individuals have told me. Sadly it appears that the number of folks dealing with these sort of problems may be increasing.

I am much more reactive to diesel in general and diesel residue is much more of a problem for me. In my life diesel is an absolute no go regardless of the performance or economy. I can barely find ways to cope with very occasional operation of a gas powered car. I try not to run it more than once or twice a week.

S

[biobass]

I've put on about 22K miles on my VW Jetta Sportwagen (sic) TDI in just under a year. So far, I like it a lot. I'm averaging a real (calculated) 40 mpg per tank on mostly town and rural road commutes. I've gotten over 50 mpg on long, easy highway rides, but 46-48 mpg is more usual on the highway. Plenty of low end torque, and when using the sport shifting setting or the Tiptronic mode, it actually reminds me of driving my old BMW 2002 quite a bit (can't heel and toe of course!) but the mpg suffers when playing. There is plenty of passing power up to 75 mph or so, but you do have to learn to anticipate the slight lag inherent with turbos, either gas or diesel.

There is plenty of room for my basses, electric and upright, and amplifiers, or dogs, groceries, camping gear etc. My wife and I have been completely comfortable on 10 hour rides in it.

Diesels have improved so much over the years, but it was the VW's ability to pass CA strict emission requirements that allowed me to consider getting one. There is none of the belching smoke and fumes that are usually associated with diesels and it is almost as quiet as the gas models.

I just hope that the reliability is better than on my 2001 Passat. I loved driving that car, but hated paying for the repairs. I managed to get over 200K miles on both my Passat and my '98 Golf, both gasoline models. The Golf was reasonably trouble free, my neighbor's daughter is driving it now, however the Passat was really troublesome with electrical and engine oil sludge problems. VW has a real mixed reliabilty history and doesn't come anywhere close to the historic reliability levels of Honda and Toyota. I know that I'm taking a chance with the Jetta diesel, but I'm hoping to be able to get 300K miles out of it. I also had an '84 Jetta and a couple of bugs from the 60s when I was younger, none of which were able to last over 150K miles.

Cheer,
Dennis

[Rusty Chainsaw]

Originally Posted by biobass

I've put on about 22K miles on my VW Jetta Sportwagen (sic) TDI in just under a year. So far, I like it a lot. I'm averaging a real (calculated) 40 mpg per tank on mostly town and rural road commutes. I've gotten over 50 mpg on long, easy highway rides, but 46-48 mpg is more usual on the highway. Plenty of low end torque, and when using the sport shifting setting or the Tiptronic mode, it actually reminds me of driving my old BMW 2002 quite a bit (can't heel and toe of course!) but the mpg suffers when playing. There is plenty of passing power up to 75 mph or so, but you do have to learn to anticipate the slight lag inherent with turbos, either gas or diesel.

There is plenty of room for my basses, electric and upright, and amplifiers, or dogs, groceries, camping gear etc. My wife and I have been completely comfortable on 10 hour rides in it.

Diesels have improved so much over the years, but it was the VW's ability to pass CA strict emission requirements that allowed me to consider getting one. There is none of the belching smoke and fumes that are usually associated with diesels and it is almost as quiet as the gas models.

I just hope that the reliability is better than on my 2001 Passat. I loved driving that car, but hated paying for the repairs. I managed to get over 200K miles on both my Passat and my '98 Golf, both gasoline models. The Golf was reasonably trouble free, my neighbor's daughter is driving it now, however the Passat was really troublesome with electrical and engine oil sludge problems. VW has a real mixed reliabilty history and doesn't come anywhere close to the historic reliability levels of Honda and Toyota. I know that I'm taking a chance with the Jetta diesel, but I'm hoping to be able to get 300K miles out of it. I also had an '84 Jetta and a couple of bugs from the 60s when I was younger, none of which were able to last over 150K miles.

Cheer,
Dennis

The Mexican-made VWs have always been a bit problematic. Quite apart from the extra utility (especially for musicians) and better looks of the hatchback bodystyle, I've always recommended people pick a Golf over a Jetta, Beetle or Passat since they're still made in Germany and tend to be quite a bit more reliable. The Mexican TDIs still use diesel engines imported from Germany though, so any issues with those tend to be related to the electrics rather than the engines.

[Eric Albany]

I don't own a diesel car, but I've heard that some foreign cars used diesel in stead of ordinary gas.

[biobass]

Originally Posted by Rusty Chainsaw

...I've always recommended people pick a Golf over a Jetta, Beetle or Passat since they're still made in Germany and tend to be quite a bit more reliable....

.

Generally, I think you are spot on with that recommendation, however my Passat was made in Germany and my Golf was made in Mexico. I'm pretty sure that my 84 Jetta was also made in Germany, as were the bugs, of course. Just goes to show that individual cars are always a crap shoot!

Cheers,
Dennis

[carlos840]

Man, you live in muscle car country!

Just get a big V8!