Anyone work for Honda of America?

[Tim Cole]

Having some big problems I cannot get resolved, and need to file a complaint with them. Any guys working there have any suggestions? Below is a long winded rant I did on a Honda forum which my letter will be based on.

Read this BS, it is important to know what you're up against. I am finally to the point where I need to contact Honda of America after giving the local dealership one last opportunity to correct these problems, and was further insulted and lied to. Since I have to write a letter to them, I may as well rough draft the history of it here as well. Anyone dealing with this issue owes it to themselves to read through this and prepare for what you are GOING to be dealing with!!!!!

I purchased the car new from the showroom floor, one of the last 07 ex's in stock since I liked the white....even thought the 08's were in (and apparently do not share this issue). I have a professional based job, which requires extensive travel. Honda has a great reputation, and with the advertised economy this was a great car to get into for my needs. The issues listed below are my history of concerns, and the dealers response. The car us entirely stock bumper to bumper, and I do not abuse my vehicles in any way. I am a 35 year old professional, not a fast and furious fan. I have been offered a loaner car each time it has been serviced, and two times I have taken them up on it. Both times I got a 10 year old accord with 100k plus miles, and was told at one point "local only" meaning I cannot do my work every time messing with this. Keep in mind this is ALL highway driving, and I normally get 70-100k miles out of a set of tires before there is a concern to replace them.

At 8k miles: I realize I am NOT going crazy, and am getting tire noise which is developing although not yet that severe. I called my local dealer where I purchased the car, and asked if there were any known issues with the OEM tires.
Dealer response: The service attendant asked if I had rotated the tires yet, I had not. He offered to schedule an appointment for the rotation and "take a look at things". I declined as I normally do my own maintenance and would do so immediately, even though I have not had this issues in the past. I rotated the tires, and noticed a light vibration in the front wheel, but the rear was quiet. Secondarily, I complained about a rattling rear window tray with the stereo in use. He informed me like an idiot that the rear seat was not latched, and was the cause of the issue. I KNOW it wasn't latched, I'd just opened it the day before for my sat radio antenna, and left it open to be able to move it around if necessary. I told him this, and he replied to "just give it a try". He might as well have just said "I don't care, leave me alone"....pretty much one in the same.

16k miles: I notice the rear noise appearing again, and getting much worse. Again the dealer is called, and an appointment is scheduled to take a look at it. I was informed at "Oh noes, an A1 service is due!!!" I am a moron who had no idea what that means at the time, and said go ahead and do it. I paid $69 for an oil change, tire rotation, and to guess how much material was left on my brake pads. The service attendant states that a tire rotation is again due, and is the cause of my problems with road noise. My $69 rotation again moved the screwed up rear tires to the front, now with a quite noticeable steering wheel wobble at all speeds.

25k miles The noise and vibrations have become unbearable, and at this point I have no faith in the dealerships ability to diagnose what is going on here. I google search 07 civic rear tire noise and find THIS site! I found the information everyone knew about, but kept shuffling me out the door to avoid admitting an issue and correcting it. The technical service bulletin regarding the excessive rear camber and replacement control arms clearly stated that once it hits 20k miles, their hands are washed of any responsibility their engineering flaws have caused to the tires. I am extremely pissed, but you know what? About beaten down at this point and sick and tired of messing with the issue. So I live with it....this sounds like a 60mph covered wagon.

40k miles Tires are unsafe, and the noise is enough to drive someone to jump off a bridge. I called the dealer, told him I've had this in 400 times for this issue already, and found the TSB online and need to get the rear control arms replaced so I could replace my unsafe tires on my own dime. I'm not happy, but just want the damn control arms fixed so I can get some new tires, and have this entire issue behind me. The service attendant first asked the mileage, which I told him....40-41k. He quickly reminds me that it is out of warranty and there is nothing they can do. I in a clearly aggravated manner reminded him of three things. I've been fighting this issue since it was NEW with documented services at HIS dealership, second the rear arms did not shrink over time therefore not a warranty issue in my opinion, and last....that I blew a ton of money for the 120k HONDACARE WARRANTY. Again I am treated like an idiot, and told that "not all of these are having this issue, you will need to schedule an appointment to get the issue verified, and go from there." I said look - I cannot take constant days off of work to play games, I obviously have this problem...FIX IT. I scheduled the appointment, and they repaired it using the updated upper control arms. I specifically told them NOT to align it yet, as the second I picked it up I was on my way to purchase new tires, and would be back for the alignment immediately. They called later in the day letting me know the car should be done, it is over getting aligned right now

After researching on tires, being SICK of all the BS with this and never wanting to deal with it again - I decided to buy a top rated tire. I went with Goodyear Triple treads....which I will concur are spectacular and well worth the high end price range. More than happy to pay a premium for quality - hint, hint. Thank God, I am finally done and over this, right???? Come on, it can't be that easy.

48k miles: (7,500ish on tires)when I was due for the suggested rotation interval I begin to notice.....rear tire noise? Nooo, it can't be. So I rotate them as directed.

55k miles: Frustrated, I admit defeat and come to grips with the fact that the new tires are indeed, doing the same thing. I will NOT rotate these again like I did the first set ending up with 4 junk tires instead of four.

56k miles: Dealer contacted and informed of the ongoing situation. I'm so sick of dealing with this I don't even really have the energy to be mad about it anymore. Service tech reports that the left rear wheel has excessive negative camber, and tire damage IS developing. The service manager again informs me that I need an allignment to correct this, and states I must have hit a pot hole. BS....I am careful with my driving, and challenged him to show me a bent wheel, broken belt in a tire, or any other evident of damage that would be indicative of his suggestion. He tells me to take it over to the local tuffy who does their allignments for them. Guess what? Too many miles since it was repaired, it will cost me $69 plus tax for the work. I still decided to get it done, but he could not fit it in that day, and I had work scheduled the rest of the week tying me up from being able to give up my car once again for more chasing my own tail.

I come home and did a search on allignment, and guess what? The rear camber is NON ADJUSTABLE on these. I was flat out lied to at the dealership once again. I am DONE dealing with this mess, and am taking my concerns to Honda of America which I'd planned to do before this last service visit, but calmed down and gave them yet another chance to make it right. That worked out well didn't it? Since these are non-adjustable, if it is out of spec it will be BENT. Someone is going to show me a bent arm, or I'm going to get pretty ugly.

I bought this car based on Honda's reputation, and honestly planned to run this car to 300k miles. Business is good enough, I was actually thinking of trading in on an Acura within the next 6-12 months. Looks like I need to check out toyota/lexus offerings instead.

[invisiman]

E-mail your complaint to every single person who's contact info you can find at Honda. And blind cc it to the dealership

[tplyons]

Ouch... something I wouldn't expect from Honda, but it's astounding that you're still dealing with this.

Seems like it's worse than canceling service with AOL.

[popinfresh]

nah I don't

sorry man

[MJ5150]

Perhaps all of you with the issue should unite and confront them as a group.

-Mike

[Tim Cole]

Yeah, there are tons and I wouldn't be surprised if there were a class action deal. I paid 26K out the door tax included to NOT have to be bothered with this BS.

[MakiSupaStar]

I have had two Hondas. The first was a 84 Civic Wagovan (remember those?). That thing ran really well. Went through a clutch and a couple UV boots, but the thing was still going at a 180k miles. So years later, and many cars later, I found myself looking for a cheap used beater to commute with. A lifeguard buddy of mine sold me his 2001 two door civic, and I must say that I am less than impressed. It has not only developed wind noise, but it leaks on the passenger side door when it rains. I also have the same wobble issue as you. I am now shopping for a new set of tires after only 20k miles. I'm considering putting it up for sale too.

[Gard]

Interesting...

I've got an '03 Element, it's been bullet proof. It's so good, that the g/f just bought an '09 based on driving my '03! Never had the first q/c related issue with the vehicle in 6 years of driving it that wasn't immediately addressed. Owned 3 Civics ('84, '93, '99) prior to that and an '06 Pilot (which the ex got in a divorce), same experience with each. The only "issue" I've ever had was a defective windshield (it cracked for no reason) on my '03 Element, which was replaced, post warranty as a factory recall, without a blink from my dealer.

From my experiences, you have a DEALER issue, not a HONDA issue. You need to stop diddling around with the dealer and get in touch with the corporation (and yes, I realize that's what you're doing). I would go to their website (www.honda.com) and start digging for a phone number. I'd be willing to bet, in this economy, they will find a way to make you right, as it benefits them to not have negative press in any way (and definitely mention your "friend at the local newspaper, who is very interested in how this turns out"... ).

I am fortunate, I've dealt with 2 dealerships that have been nothing but a joy, particularly my present one in NC, Crown Honda.

Maki, not taking sides, but something to consider with your '01 Civic: the issues you're facing may or many not be q/c issues, once it's out of the first driver it's impossible to tell. It's like someone calling me at Roscoe complaining about their used 9 year old LG 3005 going through batteries too fast....yeah, that's not right, but no, it's not a warranty issue. It MAY be a q/c issue, but the original owner never brought it to our notice, or we would have fixed it - most likely, if the original owner had taken it in for similar issues it would have been fixed. Or, something I have to deal with on used items: did the original owner do something to damage the item (quite likely unintentionally and totally not knowing they'd done it) before selling it with the defect? My experience with Honda is similar to our policy, we'll do everything we can to help out, and if it's a minor issue (like a bad seal on a door?) we may do it for cost on a used item to help someone out - check with your local dealer, see what they say.

[Mike N]

A Honda dealer that doesn't do their own alignments but farms it out to a muffler shop? You gotta be kidding me, that's reason enough to never return to that dealership.

The deal is the replacement upper control arms are supposed to be somewhat longer and therefore make camber more positive than it was. Out of curiosity Tim, when they "fixed" the car before and aligned it, did they give you a printout? I'm curious as to where camber was before and after, and really curious as to where rear toe was set.

[cheezewiz]

Tim, which dealer? I'm thinking about a Honda in a year or two, and I'll DEFINITELY avoid whoever you are dealing with. I visited one of the Victory dealerships a few years ago, and I won't deal with them either. I actually found the salesman's script on plain view on his desk, and I pointed it out to him when he went off script. I thought the entire dealership was slimey beyond belief.

[scottice]

That sucks... Do you have another dealer with service in town? Also, call the BBB.

[Tim Cole]

Originally Posted by Mike N

A Honda dealer that doesn't do their own alignments but farms it out to a muffler shop? You gotta be kidding me, that's reason enough to never return to that dealership.

The deal is the replacement upper control arms are supposed to be somewhat longer and therefore make camber more positive than it was. Out of curiosity Tim, when they "fixed" the car before and aligned it, did they give you a printout? I'm curious as to where camber was before and after, and really curious as to where rear toe was set.

Ha, agreed on that! Nope, no printout on it and it wouldn't matter anyway since the camber is non-adjustable. Toe is an interesting question as well. If it was repaired correctly, and now according to them has negative camber yet again....SOMETHING got bent, correct. Again, I challenge anyone to show me a bent part.

The dealer is Gene Stevens here in findlay. Agreed on victory, and my experience with Brown in Toledo is even more slimy, although it was fun messing with the "sales professional" on the phone. University in BG seems good, they just didn't have the car I wanted at that moment.

The hassles I've already had become compounded by now having to go to an out of town service, but I've had it.

[cheezewiz]

Originally Posted by Tim Cole

Ha, agreed on that! Nope, no printout on it and it wouldn't matter anyway since the camber is non-adjustable. Toe is an interesting question as well. If it was repaired correctly, and now according to them has negative camber yet again....SOMETHING got bent, correct. Again, I challenge anyone to show me a bent part.

The dealer is Gene Stevens here in findlay. Agreed on victory, and my experience with Brown in Toledo is even more slimy, although it was fun messing with the "sales professional" on the phone. University in BG seems good, they just didn't have the car I wanted at that moment.

The hassles I've already had become compounded by now having to go to an out of town service, but I've had it.

University will be my first stop then. I definitely won't deal with Gene Stevens after the way they treated you, and Victory has been a no go since about the first five minutes I was in their dealership.

[JLP]

Buy American!

[cheezewiz]

Originally Posted by JLP

Buy American!

Thanks for adding to the discussion regarding Tim's problem.

[BurningSkies]

It does sound like a dealer issue to me...I have an 08 Honda Element that's been solid so far, but I've heard some horror stories too. I visited three local/regional Honda places and two of them I walked out laughing and saying that I'd never ever buy a car from them. The same slimy stuff already mentioned plus more. Even the place that I felt good about had moments.

Anyway, taken from the Element Owners Group message board:


If your dealers refuse to do anything about this and there is not another dealer in your area then obviously you need to contact American Honda. If they won't help then contact American Honda CORPORATE and ask to speak to an Executive...


By Phone
At our toll-free number: (800) 999-1009

By Fax
(310) 783-3023 (24 Hours)

By Mail

American Honda Motor Co., Inc.
Honda Automobile Customer Service
1919 Torrance Boulevard
Mail Stop: 500 - 2N - 7D
Torrance, CA 90501-2746

Here is a telephone number at American Honda Corporate Offices: (310) 783-2114.

Ask for the Executive Offices and take it from there. Explain the situation and someone will pass you on to someone that will help. Stress the seriousness, but above all... remain calm and NICE. Don't yell it won't get you anywhere.

If I get a chance I'll tell the story about how Saturn once screwed a really good friend of mine, how much of a battle it was for her and how she finally got the company to buy her car back from her.

[MakiSupaStar]

^Gard. I'm aware of that, but the result is the same. I don't think I'll buy another one.

[Tim Cole]

Originally Posted by JLP

Buy American!

Aside from this issue....when the "big three" make a competitive product for the price without taking my tax dollars to pay ridiculous salaries, I will consider it.

[Mike N]

Originally Posted by Tim Cole

Ha, agreed on that! Nope, no printout on it and it wouldn't matter anyway since the camber is non-adjustable. Toe is an interesting question as well. If it was repaired correctly, and now according to them has negative camber yet again....SOMETHING got bent, correct. Again, I challenge anyone to show me a bent part.

That blows they didn't give you a printout. Camber usually has to be ridiculously negative before you'll see substantial tire wear (like -1 degree or worse), which is why I'm wondering about rear toe. Can you visually see the rear tires tipped in at the top?

Something else to think about (and I know it's a pain) is getting an alignment check somewhere else. Most tire shops (the chains like Goodyear, Firestone etc...) offer free alignment checks. Just have it checked, and if you can prove the dealer screwed up you may have some recourse. If you do get it checked post or pm me the results, so I can see whassup.

[TrooperFarva]

You need to send a letter to

Tetsuo Iwamura
President of American Honda Motor Co., Inc.
1919 Torrance Boulevard
Torrance, CA 90501-2746

Will he actually read it? No. But it will be read by someone, and it will be taken seriously.